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Thread: Corbyn proves folk understand economics

  1. #11
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    But it doesn't ignore the basic truth that so many on the left ignore. Debts have to be paid at some point.

    Quite some time ago the Canadian government started advertising the fact that 25% of tax revenue was being spent on servicing debt. That was amazing. People started accepting the need for more taxes and less spending. Please note, increased tax AND decreased spending. It worked.

    The Province of Alberta did a similar thing, eliminated its debt and then was able to reduce taxes.

    Things cost and must be paid back. Talk equilibria and complexities all you want but those are basic facts.
    Isn't it clear that austerity didn't work in the UK? seven years ago, the T rate exchange showed the pound at 1.92 USD, it's been eroding, why? because of the lack of fortitude in the british government to take the risks necessary outside of their austerity model; you cannot continually maintain a second party status in revenue stream and expect increase in revenue. That's what the UK did,

    You forget, as early as the 80's Intel and others were investing in Cork County, as they were classified Class D areas. That was total bullshit.

    But now where's Intel? Malaysia, and the Asian Corridor.

    The Brits blew it, they created a vacuum economically and it came back to bite them, and never forget, in 2008, while our illustrious banksters freely admitted their duplicity in the crash, it took Bond Street a full eight months more to join in the recovery.

    That was just stupid.
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  2. #12
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    And while this debate about the relative merits or not of socialism rages..........

    Venezuelans Now On A Forced Starvation Diet — Thanks, Socialism!

    ...A new study of Venezuela's stunning decline under Hugo Chavez's socialist model, still followed faithfully by his lap dog successor, Nicolas Maduro, reports that the average Venezuelan lost 19 pounds in the last year. Today, the 2016 Living Conditions Survey finds, 32.5% of Venezuelans eat only once or twice a day, up from 11.3% just one year ago. And 93.3% of all people don't earn enough to buy sufficient food....


    Venezuela is as representative of socialism as Zimbabwe is of capitalism.
    Thanks from Iolo and OldGaffer

  3. #13
    Member fenrir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Venezuela is as representative of socialism as Zimbabwe is of capitalism.
    Nonsense, it's a perfect representative of socialism. BTW, zimbabwe is also run by a socialist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

    ...Robert Gabriel Mugabe (/muːˈɡɑːbiː/; Shona Shona pronunciation: [muɡaɓe]; born 21 February 1924) is a Zimbabwean revolutionary and politician who has been President of Zimbabwe since 1987; he previously led Zimbabwe as Prime Minister from 1980 to 1987. Ideologically an African nationalist and socialist, he led the Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) group from 1975 to 1980 and has led its successor political party, the ZANU - Patriotic Front (ZANU–PF), since 1980....

  4. #14
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    Nonsense, it's a perfect representative of socialism. BTW, zimbabwe is also run by a socialist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

    ...Robert Gabriel Mugabe (/muːˈɡɑːbiː/; Shona Shona pronunciation: [muɡaɓe]; born 21 February 1924) is a Zimbabwean revolutionary and politician who has been President of Zimbabwe since 1987; he previously led Zimbabwe as Prime Minister from 1980 to 1987. Ideologically an African nationalist and socialist, he led the Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) group from 1975 to 1980 and has led its successor political party, the ZANU - Patriotic Front (ZANU–PF), since 1980....
    Couldn't get one of those brave libertarians to take the job?

    Now that you've showed that you don't understand economics lets get back to the OP.

  5. #15
    Member tnbskts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    In all these 7 years of austerity for the many, the few have got personally richer, but tripled the country's debt. They can't have taken ALL of it, can they?
    I think taking all of it was sort of the object of the exercise. Then she had to go and call an election, and regular people decided they'd had enough of giving their money to CEOs and financiers. No wonder democracy isn't popular with the financial elite.
    Thanks from Dangermouse, labrea and Iolo

  6. #16
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    But it doesn't ignore the basic truth that so many on the left ignore. Debts have to be paid at some point.

    Quite some time ago the Canadian government started advertising the fact that 25% of tax revenue was being spent on servicing debt. That was amazing. People started accepting the need for more taxes and less spending. Please note, increased tax AND decreased spending. It worked.

    The Province of Alberta did a similar thing, eliminated its debt and then was able to reduce taxes.

    Things cost and must be paid back. Talk equilibria and complexities all you want but those are basic facts.
    You forgot one giant difference between a state and a nation that has fiat money, the state cannot make money, the nation that backs the money can make it out of thin air any time it wants. Think of the debt payments as interest paid to bondholders by a government that decided not to tax in order to spend and is willing to pay interest on money it made out of thin air just for the hell of it. The government owes bond holders money it creates itself. Our government is not a household which is why it never really has to balance payments in a fiat system. I know it sounds weird but that is reality.

  7. #17
    olguy OlGuy's Avatar
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    With other countries like Qatar, which has 35B invested in the UK, the country can hand over policy matters to the world financiers and chip off enough for health care and unemployment.

  8. #18
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    And while this debate about the relative merits or not of socialism rages..........

    Venezuelans Now On A Forced Starvation Diet — Thanks, Socialism!

    ...A new study of Venezuela's stunning decline under Hugo Chavez's socialist model, still followed faithfully by his lap dog successor, Nicolas Maduro, reports that the average Venezuelan lost 19 pounds in the last year. Today, the 2016 Living Conditions Survey finds, 32.5% of Venezuelans eat only once or twice a day, up from 11.3% just one year ago. And 93.3% of all people don't earn enough to buy sufficient food....


    How is Sweden's socialism doing, anyone starving? How about any of the EU social Democracies, anyone starving or lacking healthcare? How about other third world hell holes that are not socialist, are they paradises of Libertarianism? I think Chili still has some plots left in Galt's Gulch project....

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Too many right wingers believe in trickle down. Too many left wingers believe in half of Keynesian theory. The all know about needing to use government money to stimulate the economy when things are bad. But they totally ignore the fact that Keynes also said that that money had to be repaid when times were good.

    So when will times be good? Or have you found some way of paying back that money without a decrease in spending. Are you a closet trickle downer?
    Blast from the past:

    Polls by CBS News, for instance, found consistently over the last three years that tax cuts were viewed as less important than other priorities. The most recent poll, taken in December, found that 15 percent of those surveyed said they would prefer a tax cut when asked to choose among various ways to spend the surplus. Nearly half said the money should be spent on Social Security and Medicare, as former President Bill Clinton had proposed, while 17 percent favored deficit reduction and 18 percent chose other options.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/08/us...maybe-not.html
    It was the republican president, and congress that choose tax cuts over debt reduction, and making Medicare, and social security solvent for decades to come.
    Thanks from BigLeRoy and OldGaffer

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    How is Sweden's socialism doing, anyone starving? How about any of the EU social Democracies, anyone starving or lacking healthcare? How about other third world hell holes that are not socialist, are they paradises of Libertarianism? I think Chili still has some plots left in Galt's Gulch project....
    Galts Gulch turned out to be a scam, a libertarian pipe dream.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a...ged-922-v21n10

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