Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47
Thanks Tree20Thanks

Thread: Democrat vs Republican: The Knowledge Struggle

  1. #11
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    6,308
    Thanks
    1169

    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    it's more an issue of priority than ignorance. conservatives are interested in "balancing the books" and liberals are more interested helping the citizens regardless of cost. in all things there must be a proper balance. Americans have not yet found that balance - but we're working on it.
    But economics covers that distinction, given focus on various market failures and the need for interventionism. Is it simply the narrow definitions used for 'economics education'?

  2. #12
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    13,702
    Thanks
    5025

    From
    south
    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    But economics covers that distinction, given focus on various market failures and the need for interventionism. Is it simply the narrow definitions used for 'economics education'?
    unsure if it's a definition problem. but, it's American politics which we are discussing, so the European models don't work here - including market intervention. let's just say that Republicans are more inclined to support less intervention and Democrats will intervene, possibly to a fault, to protect citizens. as I stated, we have not been able to reconcile the two yet. Europe has had several hundred years head start and worked through this difficultly long age, it will take time for us to get there.

  3. #13
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    6,308
    Thanks
    1169

    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    unsure if it's a definition problem. but, it's American politics which we are discussing, so the European models don't work here - including market intervention. let's just say that Republicans are more inclined to support less intervention and Democrats will intervene, possibly to a fault, to protect citizens. as I stated, we have not been able to reconcile the two yet. Europe has had several hundred years head start and worked through this difficultly long age, it will take time for us to get there.
    Market interventionism has always occurred. Take Reaganomics. Simple inefficient Military Keynesianism. I suppose we could argue that economic knowledge is less relevant than we'd think. It may simply be based around a particular ideological framework, making it convenient for political manipulation and less relevant in pushing for optimal policy making.

  4. #14
    Swamper chaos's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    2,772
    Thanks
    1240

    From
    Cyberia
    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Market interventionism has always occurred. Take Reaganomics. Simple inefficient Military Keynesianism. I suppose we could argue that economic knowledge is less relevant than we'd think. It may simply be based around a particular ideological framework, making it convenient for political manipulation and less relevant in pushing for optimal policy making.
    Both republicans and democrats intervene to make sure Wall Street gets a bailout every 20 years, and that huge multinational corporations keep their subsidies -- even though profits are record high, but we the people are expected to work 2 or 3 jobs at minimum wage to stay buoyant.

  5. #15
    Pundit DemoWhip's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    4,934
    Thanks
    3010

    From
    In Your Heart!

    Exclamation Study: Economy grows faster under Democratic presidents than Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Evidence suggests that Republicans are more knowledgeable on economic issues than Democrats. However, evidence also suggests that Democratic politics is more likely to acquire higher economic growth than Republican politics.

    Your explanation?
    Here's an EXCELLENT explanation for you and others!

    Study: Economy grows faster under Democratic presidents than Republicans - CBS News

    "The U.S. economy has grown far more rapidly under Democratic presidents than under Republican presidents since World War II -- but why?"
    "A paper released Tuesday by the National Bureau of Economic Research seeks to answer that question."
    Thanks from Friday13

  6. #16
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    13,649
    Thanks
    3659

    From
    AK
    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Evidence suggests that Republicans are more knowledgeable on economic issues than Democrats. However, evidence also suggests that Democratic politics is more likely to acquire higher economic growth than Republican politics.

    Your explanation?
    Why is it overwhelmingly the case that rural areas are conservative and urban areas liberal?

    In other words, does your "evidence [that] also suggests that Democratic politics is more likely to acquire higher economic growth than Republican politics" account for rural vs. urban differences?
    Thanks from splansing

  7. #17
    Member Robert Urbanek's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,904
    Thanks
    1244

    From
    Vacaville, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    unsure if it's a definition problem. but, it's American politics which we are discussing, so the European models don't work here - including market intervention. let's just say that Republicans are more inclined to support less intervention and Democrats will intervene, possibly to a fault, to protect citizens. as I stated, we have not been able to reconcile the two yet. Europe has had several hundred years head start and worked through this difficultly long age, it will take time for us to get there.
    Really? How well has Greece "worked through this difficulty?" One problem is that European social democrats wanted it both ways: a welfare state but allowing the banks to emulate "cowboy capitalism" and engage in real estate speculation, including investing in the garbage US mortgage packages that blew up in 2008.

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    97,343
    Thanks
    3785

    From
    Vancouver
    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    it's more an issue of priority than ignorance. conservatives are interested in "balancing the books" and liberals are more interested helping the citizens regardless of cost. in all things there must be a proper balance. Americans have not yet found that balance - but we're working on it.
    Conservative people might be very interested in "balancing the books". Sure. I'll go with that.

    But Republicans, the political party, have rarely in my lifetime come even remotely close to doing anything but spiralling your country into debt, unemployment, income disparity and unhappiness. The exception would be Bush Senior - a man who genuinely felt like his role was public service and political compromise. ... which of course made that Republican base of deplorables call him wimp and pussy and constantly harangue him as emasculate. And down he went after one term.
    Thanks from Panzareta and OHjulie

  9. #19
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    97,343
    Thanks
    3785

    From
    Vancouver
    My great uncle died when I was a teenager. He'd been wounded in Korea and had an artificial leg. His wife, my Great Aunt Laura, survived him and hosted his funeral reception.

    At the end of the evening she got a bit teary and said something like "I spent a lot of years hating him. He was cruel. He hit me and he hit the kids until they were bigger than him. He wasn't a good man. I married him because he came back like that and I felt sorry for him. But I stuck by him. I never complained. And I had his 3 meals ready every single day. Every single day. I never missed one day. Sick, pregnant, even when I was working I never missed his meals. I'm proud of that".

    This woman never left Manitoba. Never owned a washing machine (he didn't see why she shouldn't scrub laundry by hand. Into the 1980s).

    I got no issue with conservative people. Shoot - my wife is conservative. I've voted Conservative up here and will again.

    But thats how I see US Republican Party voters. Like my Aunt Laura. So proud of her loyalty and sacrifice to please her mean, dumb, nasty abuser. Cooking eggs every morning for the man that beats her kids.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 16th July 2017 at 08:36 PM.
    Thanks from Friday13

  10. #20
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    12,005
    Thanks
    9942

    From
    Here
    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Evidence suggests that Republicans are more knowledgeable on economic issues than Democrats. However, evidence also suggests that Democratic politics is more likely to acquire higher economic growth than Republican politics.

    Your explanation?
    What sort of "evidence"?

    I have seen examples of both, but in the last decades of the 20th century and over the 21st century, economically, I have been better off when Democrats have been in the White House. While neo republicans like to sell the perception they are somehow more knowledgeable, I have come to expect that any positive change ushered in by a neo-republican being elected to the White House, it has been short lived.

    In my opinion, it is because there are promises of tax cuts and roll backs of regulations. In the short term, the perception (and sales job) of what such things will produce appeal to the selfish, greedy side of many people and they spur on all kinds of economic activity which ends up doing several things, but fail in the base promises of overall prosperity. Tax cuts, especially when many of those supporting such things (who does NOT want a tax cut?) are many, if not all, the same sorts of people complaining about the nation's debt, have not only failed to produce prosperity across the board for all Americans, they are like taking a cut in pay to pay off one's debt. If there are any beneficiaries of tax cuts, they are the already wealthy who only become more wealthy and instead of spending in a manner that supports the overall economy, spend in ways that benefit themselves only. Rollbacks in regulations do much of the same and what is expected by most intelligent people, INCLUDING those that profit the most from them, the CROOKS!!! To put it simply, those looking to rip off people without any means to hold them accountable for doing so, LOVE regulation rollbacks, because THEY can rip off people without being held accountable!!!! Inevitably, that ends up being the result. The cheaters, crooks, liars, con artists, rip off artists (and they wear white collars, too) suck the overall economy dry and inevitably cause a recession that mostly wipes out any gains anyone made from activity that was based on so much hot air, not reality and so much thievery and personal "conservatism" (of personal profit), NOT lasting, stable prosperity spread across the entire spectrum of income levels.

    Democrats, in this same time span, have appeared to have been left the job of having to recover from the too wild partying of the crooks, liars, thieves, rip off artists, con artists who have taken the money and run. Obviously there is a cost to the clean up effort in several ways. It cost money to, in a manner of speaking, clean the rugs, repair the torn up lawn. repair the cigarette burns, replace the broken glass and other ware and repair and replace other things broken and stolen. This cost is used against those expending the money, by the party goers as wasteful spending and adding to the debt, but without it, the results would be obvious and the party goers would continue to run down the property (nation) while laughing their own way, to the bank (with the stolen goods and because it is NOT their own property they are ruining, but the property of others, they are stealing from and wrecking. By the time the economy begins to stabilize and the benefit is seen in a much broader swath of America (than the top 10%), the crooks, thieves, liars and con artists have convinced just enough (look at the election margins of victory, especially of the last two neo republicans in the White House) Americans that a slow recovery or any failings in the economy due to a sifting out of competition, as in the DOT.COM bubble, are due to Democratic economic policies, not due to economic features of a specific sector.

    The mortgage crisis and other financial crisis' while the failings of specific sectors of the economy, had a basis in not just the rollback of regulation, but those who would use those rollbacks to rip people off with financial "devices" and "instruments" sold without the full disclosure of risk or the due diligence needed to see if what was sold, could actually be paid for, beyond those selling them, getting their commissions for the sale. The old adage still seems to hold up. If something looks to good to be true, it probably is too good to be true and it's NOT true, especially in the longer term.

    I think neo-republican "economic" have been geared toward enriching a few, at the expense of many, while Democratic policies appear to be aimed at enriching all, so all prosper.

    Simply put, if someone needs to sell 100 refrigerators to maintain their business and number of employees, when times are bad and the wealthy still retain a huge percentage of wealth, they are not going to become the substitute for all the lost sales. A wealthy person may still be able to afford 5 or 25 refrigerators but they are not going to buy an additional 75-95 refrigerators to make up for those that can no longer afford to buy just one. In other words, the top percentage of people in the world, in spite of what some want others to believe, and in spite of all the massive amounts of the world's wealth that they hold. are NOT going to support an economy that depends upon trillions upon trillions of small and modest transactions of goods and services, by the masses of people who are NOT super wealthy. While building 5 or 6 multi-million dollar mega-mansions for the very wealthy might be very lucrative for some construction companies, that won't support construction companies that need to build hundreds of homes at lesser amounts (the total of which is still greater than the 5-6 mega mansions) to stay even and support the numbers of employees and offshoot businesses they do.

    This appears to be understood by Democrats, whereas neo-republicans only seem to understand the "self" and dealing to the "self". Modern day Democrats also understand the "self" is of utmost importance, but they also seem to understand (as "old" Republicans did) that if one lives in a society of people, the "self" is NOT the only important thing. One wants to keep those they depend on for labor and for commerce, in good shape, so their own (self) businesses stay in good shape or to put it more simply, so they have long term customers for their goods and services. Neo-republicans seem to think in terms of ripping people off for all they are worth and don't worry about the long term or the fact that they won't come back, because they were ripped off. In some cases, they depend on people unaware they are being ripped off, because they are unobservant, are not intelligent enough to figure out they are being ripped off or because they are equally as greedy as those ripping them off, are blind to the schemes they buy into that are ripping them off.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick


    Who doesn't want some sort of benefit to themselves? The difference I believe is that "conservative" in a political sense today, is far different than the non-political definition of the word. I know people of both parties who spend like there is no tomorrow and have gotten themselves into big problems as a result. I know people of both parties who are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. I know many rRepublicans, both of the old school and the neo school who are totally different when it comes to their "conservatism".

    I would suggest MOST people are fiscally conservative in the non-political sense of the definition of "conservative". It is pretty much a requirement to survive, but there are all levels of "surviving". For some, they need to conserve on their purchase of food, so they can pay the rent or a visit to the doctor. For some, "conservative" means hoarding cash and not spending on anything, even a new roof or paint job on their home or buying only cheap goods and services, merely because they are cheap. For others, the same sort of "conservatism" in their business practices lead to ruined businesses because they were so stingy (conservative) they didn't spend the money required to update their manufacturing equipment or spruce up their sales floor or hire quality employees. They simply took all the profits for themselves.

    I was once a Republican and would be one again if the neo faction was tossed out and more moderates like some of the Rockefeller family, Eisenhower or T Roosevelt returned. As far as I can tell, no Republican or Democrat is perfect and all people, including me, have their faults, but in weighing the balance, my money currently is on Democrats to both know what they are doing (being knowledgeable) and acquiring higher economic growth, because they aim to raise up a much higher population of people, creating a much more massive amount of transaction (commerce), not just money shuffling amongst the already wealthy.
    Thanks from Babba

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 15th November 2016, 12:02 PM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 14th February 2015, 05:10 AM
  3. Republican becomes a Democrat
    By Cotton2226 in forum Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 6th January 2015, 12:40 PM
  4. First Republican / First Democrat
    By justoneman in forum World History
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 13th May 2008, 02:35 PM
  5. Republican vs. Democrat
    By Faithful One in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2nd February 2007, 09:06 PM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed