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Thread: WH is Only Telling Half the Story About What Happened to American Jobs

  1. #41
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Trump touts 'great jobs numbers' that aren't actually so great - LA Times

    The reality is that presidents don't really have much effect on employment and nothing Trump has done has changed that. He is not responsible for the good or the bad.
    yes you are referencing U3. if I get a part time job, the U3 counts me as FULLY EMPLOYED U6 does not count me as fully employed.

    Thanks, for showing me you are totally clueless of BLS Data sets.

    The U3 dropped very little. because the people that got upsized to FULL TIME employment from their part time employment WERE ALREADY included in the U3 dataset BEFORE the upsized employment status. so when they were moved from part time to full time did not have an effect on the U3, Now the U3 changed slightly because people that are totally unemployed are finding jobs as well.

    the U6 on the other hand has DECREASED over 1% because when they went from part time employment status to full time, they were no longer counted as MARGINALLY EMPLOYED. (U3 counts the marginally employed as fully employed).

    What is 1.2% of 150,000,000 (THAT IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT HAD PART TIME JOBS THAT FOUND FULL TIME JOBS) since Trump began deregulating in January.
    Last edited by TNVolunteer73; 31st July 2017 at 09:13 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I do wonder now in the technological age, if people just wont hide their money still? I heard recently how various investors are now buying up starter homes to rent them at exorbitant prices but they head them with foreigners so the US cant tax them, yet they are still run by Americans. Just basically a faux head at the top for tax purposes. Its going to be harder to get taxes nowadays without "borders" per se for money and taxes. As we speak the wealthy are doing just that, figuring out how to evade. There is even courses on it in law school.
    Rich people "figuring out how to evade" taxes has been happening as long as there have been taxes.

    And, it won't change.

    Make new tax laws and big companies will have teams of tax lawyers figuring out how to find loopholes and exemptions.
    Thanks from bajisima

  3. #43
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Rich people "figuring out how to evade" taxes has been happening as long as there have been taxes.

    And, it won't change.

    Make new tax laws and big companies will have teams of tax lawyers figuring out how to find loopholes and exemptions.
    Not a problem in socialism!

  4. #44
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Rich people "figuring out how to evade" taxes has been happening as long as there have been taxes.

    And, it won't change.

    Make new tax laws and big companies will have teams of tax lawyers figuring out how to find loopholes and exemptions.
    The fact is that many other countries manage to collect higher taxes. There is no reason we can't.

  5. #45
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    The fact is that many other countries manage to collect higher taxes. There is no reason we can't.
    Again, I think it goes back to ones mindset. People of all income levels either believe taxes are a way to provide services and programs for themselves and others. Or they hate the very idea and avoid them. There is no reason a company like Apple cant pay their US taxes but yet they choose to hide revenue overseas. Its why a lot of things cant get done anymore. Very few, if any, companies did this 50 years ago. There was a conscience and a desire to pay taxes because it helped everyone. Now its like a badge of honor or that kid in school that cheats off the smart kid and doesn't get caught.
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  6. #46
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Again, I think it goes back to ones mindset. People of all income levels either believe taxes are a way to provide services and programs for themselves and others. Or they hate the very idea and avoid them. There is no reason a company like Apple cant pay their US taxes but yet they choose to hide revenue overseas. Its why a lot of things cant get done anymore. Very few, if any, companies did this 50 years ago. There was a conscience and a desire to pay taxes because it helped everyone. Now its like a badge of honor or that kid in school that cheats off the smart kid and doesn't get caught.
    That's really pathetic. I think that more than anything else that is what Democrats need to fight back on. But it is a symptom of a larger problem that certain wealthy entities and large corporations have been very successful over the past 40 years of purposely misinforming Americans in order to convince them to vote against their own best interests. I just read an article where Al Gore discusses this. He's, of course, relating it all to the climate change denial, but he recognizes that it's all connected to people who are working to enrich themselves at the expense of the majority.

    Al Gore shared the Nobel Prize in 2007 for his efforts in combating climate change, but in some ways it feels like he’s just getting started. The rest of the world is only now cottoning on to the enlightenment struggle that’s at the heart of it – a battle royal to defend facts and reason against people and forces for whom it’s a truth too inconvenient to allow. For Gore, the US oil companies are the ultimate culprits, but it’s only just becoming apparent that Russia has also played a role, amplifying messages around climate change as it did around the other issues at the heart of Trump’s agenda, and we segue into his visits to Russia in the early 90s, during one of which he met Putin for the first time.
    Brexit, Trump, climate change, oil producers, dark money, Russian influence, a full- frontal assault on facts, evidence, journalism, science, it’s all connected. Ask Al Gore. You may want to watch Wonder Woman this summer, but to understand the new reality we’re living in, you really should watch An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power. Because, terrifying as they are, in some ways the typhoons and exploding glaciers are just the start of it.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...reason-al-gore
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  7. #47
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    That's really pathetic. I think that more than anything else that is what Democrats need to fight back on. But it is a symptom of a larger problem that certain wealthy entities and large corporations have been very successful over the past 40 years of purposely misinforming Americans in order to convince them to vote against their own best interests. I just read an article where Al Gore discusses this. He's, of course, relating it all to the climate change denial, but he recognizes that it's all connected to people who are working to enrich themselves at the expense of the majority.





    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...reason-al-gore
    The problem is the far left and sometimes the libertarians do try to fight back against this stuff. But people have it in their minds, they are all extremists nutjobs so we cant listen to anything they say. So many dismiss it. Its disturbing that so many of our politicians take donations from oil and health insurers but we are fairly powerless. It may come a time when a grassroots movement can get up there and do it will small donations but after Trump, I think it will be a long time. People most likely might want to go back to a corporate candidate from either side just for some normalcy. They look completely normal compared to now. Plus as you say it isn't just the US, Russia has an agenda and is likely to play it again. With so many people relying on social media and friends for their news who knows what they will end up thinking. Generally if people are getting a decent paycheck and feel meh about the economy they will vote similarly, its only when they cease that money and job where they look for something different. Kitchen table or wallet politics as BigLeRoy and I used to call it.
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  8. #48
    Mad Genius For Hire Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Technology has backfired and helped conspire to serve the rich while leaving the poor without jobs. The more advanced we become, the less work that is necessary. Everybody keeps griping about what happened to all the manufacturing jobs, but the truth is, AUTOMATION happened.

    We have to raise wages AND cut hours in order to make this work. It won't happen until it HAS to be done.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    yes you are referencing U3. if I get a part time job, the U3 counts me as FULLY EMPLOYED U6 does not count me as fully employed.

    Thanks, for showing me you are totally clueless of BLS Data sets.

    The U3 dropped very little. because the people that got upsized to FULL TIME employment from their part time employment WERE ALREADY included in the U3 dataset BEFORE the upsized employment status. so when they were moved from part time to full time did not have an effect on the U3, Now the U3 changed slightly because people that are totally unemployed are finding jobs as well.

    the U6 on the other hand has DECREASED over 1% because when they went from part time employment status to full time, they were no longer counted as MARGINALLY EMPLOYED. (U3 counts the marginally employed as fully employed).

    What is 1.2% of 150,000,000 (THAT IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT HAD PART TIME JOBS THAT FOUND FULL TIME JOBS) since Trump began deregulating in January.
    Even if what you said was true (it isn't) Trump had ZERO to do with it.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Again, I think it goes back to ones mindset. People of all income levels either believe taxes are a way to provide services and programs for themselves and others. Or they hate the very idea and avoid them. There is no reason a company like Apple cant pay their US taxes but yet they choose to hide revenue overseas. Its why a lot of things cant get done anymore. Very few, if any, companies did this 50 years ago. There was a conscience and a desire to pay taxes because it helped everyone. Now its like a badge of honor or that kid in school that cheats off the smart kid and doesn't get caught.
    Apple doesn't 'hide' money overseas. Apple owns subsidiaries and those subsidiaries earn money overseas. Because of US tax laws, the parent corporation simply leaves it there. Indeed, we have laws which tend to skew the decision between issuing a dividend and investing those dividends here, or NOT and simply reinvest the earnings where they were earned. If a corporation chooses the latter, so be it. In and of itself, the fsct US corporations invest overseas is not a bad thing because foreign corporations invest fsr more here than we do there.

    While I would eliminate corporate income tax altogether, given that it will likely exist, at least we should have a dividend received deduction to prevent 'triple' taxation. Fact is we don't and this law, irrespective of the corporate income tax rate itself which is really a tangent in this context, is the single worst law in the US. It is costing oyr economy TRILLIONS in investment.
    Last edited by publius3; 4th August 2017 at 07:46 AM.

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