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Thread: The perceived superiority of the private sector...

  1. #11
    Scucca Ęthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Privatization of utilities is usually not really privatization because rates and inefficient monopoly profits remain controlled by public utility commissions, so (quasi-)privatization of utilities is more of a workaround to deal with the inefficiencies of overly aggressive unions in states where statutes let unions have their way with public employers.
    Of course its privatisation. Inefficient profit opportunity is created, with regulation creating the real 'conflict of interest' (e.g. we've seen increases in prices with false investment claims used to justify the rent seeking behaviour).

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    The perceived superiority of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ęthelfrith View Post
    Of course its privatisation. Inefficient profit opportunity is created, with regulation creating the real 'conflict of interest' (e.g. we've seen increases in prices with false investment claims used to justify the rent seeking behaviour).
    Clearly you are going to see inefficient "profit" only where you want to see it. A "privatized" utility strongly controlled for monopoly profit by an oversight commission is inherently bad because you've decided privatization is a dirty word, whereas a public utility being eaten alive by a union in cahoots with government management is inherently good because you've decided unions are necessarily "efficient."
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 31st August 2017 at 12:35 PM.

  3. #13
    Scucca Ęthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Clearly you are only going to see inefficient "profit" only where you want to see it.
    Rents are inefficient, by definition. I haven't invented modern economics.

    A "privatized" utility strongly controlled for monopoly profit by an oversight commission is inherently bad because you've decided privatization is a dirty word, whereas a public utility being eaten alive by a union in cahoots with government management is inherently good because you've decided unions are necessarily "efficient."
    I've merely referred to the evidence. See, for example, the rail example you conveniently ignored as you peddle your anti-union drivel: "...an aggressive outsourcing strategy which raised the real-terms costs of new investment projects to 2–3 times the levels paid by British Rail" (Bowman, 2015)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ęthelfrith View Post
    Rents are inefficient, by definition. I haven't invented modern economics.
    Overly generous government-union contracts are inefficient by the same definition. One way or another public goods need to control for this inefficiency.

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    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    1 manager decides to gouge

    3000 businesses open their doors to those in need.

    sound like a better record than the government.

  6. #16
    Scucca Ęthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Overly generous government-union contracts are inefficient by the same definition. One way or another public goods need to control for this inefficiency.
    Accountability is easier, quangos are well known mechanisms for rents to run amok. Regulation is the worst, as shown by destructive of investment effectiveness

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    The Covfefe are Coming! BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ęthelfrith View Post
    The invisible hand, despite being a minor issue for Adam Smith, is used by right wing pressure groups to suggest the market is necessarily best. However, the practical nature of privatisation suggests that underhand techniques are needed to coerce 'market solutions'. Chomsky summarised it nearly:

    "That's the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don't work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital."

    Ain't theft grand!
    It is a canard.

    For profit corporations are interested in one thing - making money. Whenever one claims otherwise, it is lying.

    Naturally, any profit is taken at the expense of higher prices.
    Last edited by BitterPill; 31st August 2017 at 01:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ęthelfrith View Post
    Accountability is easier, quangos are well known mechanisms for rents to run amok. Regulation is the worst, as shown by destructive of investment effectiveness
    I get the sense that you will only ever frame this issue in whatever way reflects negatively on 1) the private sector generally and 2) management, while refusing to acknowledge examples of unaccountability and inefficiency in poorly managed projects. When you work in the real world and see a road costing $1 million per 1/10th of a mile take 6 years to even get started with 30% administrative overhead going to vast teams of state engineers and project managers who are all untouchable union members, it becomes impossible to deny the inefficiency and incompetence that is allowed to run amok even where there is no privatization. But you've decided you want no criticism extended to unions, so you will only see what you want to see.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I get the sense that you will only ever frame this issue in whatever way reflects negatively on 1) the private sector generally and 2) management, while refusing to acknowledge examples of unaccountability and inefficiency in poorly managed projects.
    You want to ramble on about unions. I see the folly in that.

    When you work in the real world
    I do and that includes seeing the abuse associated with quangos and privatisation.

    ...and see a road costing $1 million per 1/10th of a mile take 6 years to even get started with 30% administrative overhead going to vast teams of state engineers and project managers who are all untouchable union members, it becomes impossible to deny the inefficiency and incompetence that is allowed to run amok even where there is no privatization. But you've decided you want no criticism extended to unions, so you will only see what you want to see.
    Blah blah blah! Refer to an empirical analysis into unions if you want to show its importance. I've already demonstrated the increased efficiency of public sector investment. Why can you just give ideological claptrap?
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    The perceived superiority of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ęthelfrith View Post
    You want to ramble on about unions. I see the folly in that.

    I do and that includes seeing the abuse associated with quangos and privatisation.

    Blah blah blah! Refer to an empirical analysis into unions if you want to show its importance. I've already demonstrated the increased efficiency of public sector investment. Why can you just give ideological claptrap?
    There is no "empirical analysis" of the State of Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities' project management efficiency or lack thereof that will ever satisfy a devout cartel-lover like you, but having seen their admin costs rise to 30% of an infrastructure progress, and noting that this is the 2nd most union-friendly state government in the nation, I know that no such academic study is needed to observe that they're not doing their jobs, and thus privatization of some of these projects would be more efficient.

    In other words, your blanket vilification of private firms is the real ideological claptrap here.

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