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Thread: Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    A bidding war isn't the moral solution,
    It's not any solution, it's the problem. The problem with no solution except a blatantly arbitrary one.

    You are a store owner with a 24 pack of Dasani water. You go to open your doors and there are 300 people waiting outside demanding that water. It normally sells for $.89 a bottle, but all 300 of them are offering between $3 and $10 per bottle. 276 of them (277 if you include yourself)aren't going to get a bottle no matter what you do. So what do you do?

    If all of them are severely dehydrated, there's no good answer, so it doesn't really matter, and there would be no point in me judging your character or decision-making regarding whatever the hell you decided to do with those 24 little bottles of water, because it's not going to put a dent in the problem anyway.

    I assume you and other leftist do-gooders would suggest law mandate that the store owner become a triage nurse and determine who is the most severely dehydrated and ration the water accordingly. Even that doesn't solve the problem, which is that water is a public good and the city or state or ultimately feds need to distribute drinking water to those people. There is no way to impose charitable behavior on people in times of emergency. They would just hide their shit and insist they had nothing to offer.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Why not by milliliter, he can use a syringe to distribute the water as widely as possible. Anything less and he has a flawed character doesn't he? The government should shutter his business because he is so immoral if he doesn't do that.

    If lack of drinking water is an emergency, then it's an emergency that cannot be solved by whoever is holding onto the last case of Dasani.

    Looter's mentality. I declare myself in need of what's yours, there is an emergency, so I hereby morally justify myself taking it from you.

    Yes and I would say it's clear that natural disasters provide an irresistible opportunity for left-wing people to feel especially more justified in entitling themselves to the property of others. At a deeper level, liberals want an excuse to disrupt the social order because they yearn for an ostensibly more legitimate excuse to confiscate the property of those they see as hoarding assets. They don't care if it doesn't actually solve the overall stated problems at hand, they just want an excuse to mess shit up and take property from others because that would feel good, and natural disasters provide an exciting opportunity to maybe get to do that.
    As I understand Jewish ethics, if the difference between starving and surviving is stealing (looting) then it is your duty to steal.

    Once the crisis has passed, then it is your duty to make restitution.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's not any solution, it's the problem. The problem with no solution except a blatantly arbitrary one.

    You are a store owner with a 24 pack of Dasani water. You go to open your doors and there are 300 people waiting outside demanding that water. It normally sells for $.89 a bottle, but all 300 of them are offering between $3 and $10 per bottle. 276 of them (277 if you include yourself)aren't going to get a bottle no matter what you do. So what do you do?

    If all of them are severely dehydrated, there's no good answer, so it doesn't really matter, and there would be no point in me judging your character or decision-making regarding whatever the hell you decided to do with those 24 little bottles of water, because it's not going to put a dent in the problem anyway.

    I assume you and other leftist do-gooders would suggest law mandate that the store owner become a triage nurse and determine who is the most severely dehydrated and ration the water accordingly. Even that doesn't solve the problem, which is that water is a public good and the city or state or ultimately feds need to distribute drinking water to those people. There is no way to impose charitable behavior on people in times of emergency. They would just hide their shit and insist they had nothing to offer.
    What the law can do is establish a standard. For those who lack a moral compass, the consequence is discomfort meted out by the state, rather than one's internal sense of right and wrong.
    Last edited by labrea; 2nd September 2017 at 08:29 AM.

  4. #54
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    Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    What the law can do is establish a standard. For those who lack a moral compass the consequence is discomfort meted out by the state, rather than one's internal sense of tight and wrong.
    This doesn't articulate anything. The law can't force people to be Jesus-like, and no "established standard" about pricing during emergencies is realistically enforceable or even worth attempting to enforce when there is, say, a water emergency. The only thing to be done is for government agencies to address the emergency directly, at which point price gouging becomes disabled inmediately.

  5. #55
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    Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

    Folks might notice I am not the free market purist in that I am acknowledging the obvious place for state and federal disaster management and relief, as its just too easy of a way to maintain order and bounce back from these things to not do it. So of course we should do it.

    But even the free market purists have a point in that markets open to competition eliminate the ability of a seller to gouge. If all the nation's sellers of bottled water know water is so scarce as to make ridiculous gouging possible, they'll flood the market with water and undercut the gouging price while still pulling a profit, and that will proceed very quickly until the price is back to its normal minimal markup level. Only by violating laws that prohibit monopoly power (or being granted exemption from them by government) is the ongoing ability to gouge maintained. When markets are open and competitive, it can't be.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    But even the free market purists have a point in that markets open to competition eliminate the ability of a seller to gouge. If all the nation's sellers of bottled water know water is so scarce as to make ridiculous gouging possible, they'll flood the market with water and undercut the gouging price while still pulling a profit, and that will proceed very quickly until the price is back to its normal minimal markup level. Only by violating laws that prohibit monopoly power (or being granted exemption from them by government) is the ongoing ability to gouge maintained. When markets are open and competitive, it can't be.
    This is just a reference to the idea that abnormal profit will induce new firm entry until only normal profit is made. Works beautifully in the textbook, it doesn't in the 'real world'. We know that as they forgot to mention that abnormal profit is actually the norm. Take water. You'd have to factor in location modelling, or hoarding behaviour (leading to either inefficiently high prices or price discrimination behaviour)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    “There’s No Such Thing as a Free Lunch”.


    Completely True. But some people think that making someone else pay for something makes it free.

    I am not one of those Liberals. But I do believe our taxes should go to improving our country and taking care of our people.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    This doesn't articulate anything. The law can't force people to be Jesus-like, and no "established standard" about pricing during emergencies is realistically enforceable or even worth attempting to enforce when there is, say, a water emergency. The only thing to be done is for government agencies to address the emergency directly, at which point price gouging becomes disabled inmediately.
    You think compassion and empathy are just Jesus traits! I do not. Many Athiests are far more compassionate than many so called Christians.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Why not by milliliter, he can use a syringe to distribute the water as widely as possible. Anything less and he has a flawed character doesn't he? The government should shutter his business because he is so immoral if he doesn't do that.
    I think this is called "reducto ad absurdum".
    If lack of drinking water is an emergency, then it's an emergency that cannot be solved by whoever is holding onto the last case of Dasani.
    Solved, no. Amerliorated, yes. That's like saying that no one should give money to the American Cancer Society because no single such gift will cure cancer.
    Looter's mentality. I declare myself in need of what's yours, there is an emergency, so I hereby morally justify myself taking it from you.
    Nonesense. Looters take things against the will of the owner. I'm talking about the character of the owner expressed by his will. We humans are social beings who literally cannot live without each other. If our social relations are always based on competition, we're doomed, pretty much as a matter of course. And somewhere deep in our collective conscience, we know that--which is why seeing the misery of others only as an opportunity for profit is inherently maladaptive for our species and thus ultimately immoral.
    Yes and I would say it's clear that natural disasters provide an irresistible opportunity for left-wing people to feel especially more justified in entitling themselves to the property of others. At a deeper level, liberals want an excuse to disrupt the social order because they yearn for an ostensibly more legitimate excuse to confiscate the property of those they see as hoarding assets. They don't care if it doesn't actually solve the overall stated problems at hand, they just want an excuse to mess shit up and take property from others because that would feel good, and natural disasters provide an exciting opportunity to maybe get to do that.
    Nonsense. It has nothing to do with "left-wing." Rules against price gouging during an emergency date to the days of monarchy.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    Because if Dr Troll wants to whine and cry about my response because he sucks at debate, then he should address what I say accurately. He is engaged in a logical fallacy of treating my response to a specific statement as if that were what I would say about every argument from the left.
    Or you could ignore him. That's what we tell people do to troll, is that not true Mr. CM?

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