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Thread: Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    This is just a reference to the idea that abnormal profit will induce new firm entry until only normal profit is made. Works beautifully in the textbook, it doesn't in the 'real world'.
    Gouging prices spotted in some places can't be and aren't maintained. So, apparently it does. What else is causing prices to normalize there? The government shutting down businesses in retaliation, as some have called for here?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    You think compassion and empathy are just Jesus traits! I do not.
    First of all, bottled water or the retail sale of other stuff has nothing to do with empathy, ever. Second, the Jesus reference was alluding to the "miracle of the five loaves and two fish," noting that the professionally-offended left wing seems to think that reasonably priced bottled water at an electronics store is going to solve the greater Houston water crisis created by the hurricane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I think this is called "reducto ad absurdum".
    Solved, no. Amerliorated, yes. That's like saying that no one should give money to the American Cancer Society because no single such gift will cure cancer.
    Nonesense. Looters take things against the will of the owner. I'm talking about the character of the owner expressed by his will. We humans are social beings who literally cannot live without each other. If our social relations are always based on competition, we're doomed, pretty much as a matter of course. And somewhere deep in our collective conscience, we know that--which is why seeing the misery of others only as an opportunity for profit is inherently maladaptive for our species and thus ultimately immoral.
    Nonsense. It has nothing to do with "left-wing." Rules against price gouging during an emergency date to the days of monarchy.
    It only takes 3 days without water to die. Amelioration, though not the ultimate solution, could well save a life.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Gouging prices spotted in some places can't be and aren't maintained. So, apparently it does. What else is causing prices to normalize there? The government shutting down businesses in retaliation, as some have called for here?
    Try to respond to what is said. You gave supply and demand blag, essentially based on the premise that long term pricing (referring to freedom of entry and variability in the use of capital) will be at the bottom of the average cost curve. It just doesn't operate like that in actual markets (else we wouldn't have firms making such high profits).

  4. #64
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    Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I think this is called "reducto ad absurdum".
    It is, but your line in the sand of what the moral imperative is in that scenario is just as absurd in its arbitrariness.

    Solved, no. Amerliorated, yes. That's like saying that no one should give money to the American Cancer Society because no single such gift will cure cancer.
    Not a great analogy, given the temporary nature of this water situation.

    Nonesense. Looters take things against the will of the owner. I'm talking about the character of the owner expressed by his will.
    Which is of course your arbitrary opinion, whereas what you would expect him to do with his merchandise, which is distribute it at no cost, is just as arbitrary.

    We humans are social beings who literally cannot live without each other.
    You say this a lot, but one of the most fundamental elements of our social nature is respecting the property rights of others. You will roll your eyes because that rubs you as a right wing buzz word, but you respect people's property rights every day of your life, just as I do. Of course we can't live without each other, for example, sellers need buyers, and gougers take the risk that they not only won't find buyers of the price-gouged item, but that buyers will remember the asshole maneuver and avoid him in the future.

    If our social relations are always based on competition, we're doomed,
    I didn't say unregulated competition must define all aspects of human social behavior, but little stunts like opportunistic price gouging attempts are not worth the energy or distraction of our government agencies in times like this.

    seeing the misery of others only as an opportunity for profit is inherently maladaptive for our species and thus ultimately immoral.
    Simple retail purchases are not about morality. If you have orders of magnitude more demand than supply and people are willing, begging even, to pay you a hyper-premium for what's left of your limited supply, the seller is saying yes to one of the buyers' proposal. There's nothing "moral" or "immoral" about trading. It's not based on morality one way or another, for either party. There is no point analyzing the morality of the buyer of the bottled water, is there? If supplies are limited, should we judge the moral character of the buyer regarding what he does with the water right after he buys it?

    Nonsense. It has nothing to do with "left-wing." Rules against price gouging during an emergency date to the days of monarchy.
    You know, I'm coming around to accepting that. We should have anti-gouging rules in place, specifically to appease the professionally-offended left-wing. The last thing we need is another Antifa protest over some 17-year-old sales associate putting a $100 sticker on a bottle of water.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 2nd September 2017 at 09:42 AM.

  5. #65
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    Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Try to respond to what is said.
    Try staying on topic. This is about gouging prices in a natural disaster area where direct government intervention is in process, not your tripe about firms making profits in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Try staying on topic.
    You're the one that brought up the stupidity of textbook supply & demand, hanging it around a 'free market' guff.

    This is about gouging prices in a natural disaster area where direct government intervention is in process, not your tripe about firms making profits in general.
    You don't seem to have a clue what you type! You backtracking from the textbook drivel now then?

  7. #67
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    Free Market solutions that Republicans embrace

    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    You're the one that brought up the stupidity of textbook supply & demand, hanging it around a 'free market' guff.
    Why aren't the salient examples of price-gouging maintained in post-natural disaster areas? Why is this behavior so temporary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Why aren't the salient examples of price-gouging maintained in post-natural disaster areas? Why is this behavior so temporary?
    Bit obvious really: cost plus pricing is adopted (a post-Keynesian outlook that makes your reference to the 'free market' look child like). In standard conditions psychological effects dominate (e.g. a firm taking advantage of a supply or demand shock is likely to be punished). With natural disasters there is no reference point to long term customer relations. There are just people taking the piss.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Bit obvious really: cost plus pricing is adopted (a post-Keynesian outlook that makes your reference to the 'free market' look child like). In standard conditions psychological effects dominate (e.g. a firm taking advantage of a supply or demand shock is likely to be punished). With natural disasters there is no reference point to long term customer relations. There are just people taking the piss.
    Try pontificating more, that would really convince me.

    You can't speak plainly and acknowledge how transient these gouging examples are? This is a non-issue, but leftists want to see reasons to protest and yearn to see looting and unrest because it makes them feel like they finally have an opportunity to evil capitalists punished. I'm sure these people are appreciative that you come in with heavy jargon to help protect their "safe space" where they can continue to feel offended.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Try pontificating more, that would really convince me.
    Merely basic economics. Post-Keynesianism provides a much better account of pricing policy than the claptrap you tried to pretend was relevant.

    You can't speak plainly and acknowledge how transient these gouging examples are?
    Nothing difficult in it. Post-Keynesians appreciate the impact of psychology on pricing. This helps us understand price rigidity (which shouldn't happen with the textbook ponce you pretended is accurate). However, with disasters, all bets are off. The mark-up goes through the roof. That isn't efficient or equitable, obviously.

    This is a non-issue, but leftists want to see reasons to protest and yearn to see looting and unrest because it makes them feel like they finally have an opportunity to evil capitalists punished. I'm sure these people are appreciative that you come in with heavy jargon to help protect their "safe space" where they can continue to feel offended.
    I know someone is clueless about economics when they use the term 'leftists'. Heterodox economics is naturally quite diverse. However, even a right wing zombie should be able to appreciate the severity of market failure here.

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