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Thread: Increase taxes!

  1. #1
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Increase taxes!

    IMF: higher taxes for rich will cut inequality without hitting growth
    Its a sad state of affairs when even the IMF give up on right wing rhetoric...

  2. #2
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    We've already lived for a long time with very high progressive taxes. The sky never fell. It happened, we saw it. It was fine. No problem.

    Well, unless you're in a dick-measuring contest with a sheikh, and his yacht is bigger than yours, and that's embarrassing if you're the CEO of Goldman Sachs or something.
    Thanks from labrea

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    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    We've already lived for a long time with very high progressive taxes. The sky never fell. It happened, we saw it. It was fine. No problem.

    Well, unless you're in a dick-measuring contest with a sheikh, and his yacht is bigger than yours, and that's embarrassing if you're the CEO of Goldman Sachs or something.
    Remember the Laffer Curve? A crucial part of the supply-side farce. 'Limited government' fanatics said that would, by reducing taxes, allow government to get bigger through higher revenues. Logic wasn't high up on the agenda then!
    Thanks from labrea and res

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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    We've already lived for a long time with very high progressive taxes. The sky never fell. It happened, we saw it. It was fine. No problem.

    Well, unless you're in a dick-measuring contest with a sheikh, and his yacht is bigger than yours, and that's embarrassing if you're the CEO of Goldman Sachs or something.
    But there are activities not happening, on the margin so to speak. The basic premise is flawed and it can be illumimated as such very easily. Let's take twice as much from Buffet and let the government invest it. There won't be a consequence to that? Of course there will be, instead of having America's premier investor allocating the taxed funds, we will let Congress do it.

    But no implications for growth?

    I suppose carbon taxes won't discourage carbon emissions then?

    Why are there trillions and trillions in 401k accounts?

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    It's never made much sense why so many liberals will on one hand argue (perhaps correctly) that Congress does not need to raise direct tax revenue at all in order to decide to increase poverty amelioration, but then in the next breath acts like it must in order to reduce inequalities in economic wellbeing.

    Assuming educated liberals do comprehend the monetary sovereignty of nations with fiat currency, as they claim to when arguing against deficit hawks, the tax-the-rich rallying cry would seem to be a mere populist chant, given that keeping the sense of injustice and outrage inflamed among the throngs of poor works well to win their vote when the conservative party is in control. This campaign slogan is certainly nothing new, and quite uninteresting.

    The orthodox MMT fans, for example, being more interested in theory and less interested in being cheerleaders for the DNC, aren't very aroused by blanket tax-the-rich schemes. I've heard they might be more interested in higher luxury consumption taxes. But this bores partisan liberals, as it doesn't do enough to maintain the populist outrage.

    Lastly, there's at least some coherence in the approach of someone like Piketty, who acknowledges the national self-harm (capital flight) that can occur because of the cross-border mobility of financial assets, hence why his advocacy is global, recognizing there would need to be international cooperation to address this pitfall.

    But this is also apparently boring to partisan liberals, because the underlying goal isn't any actual change or coherent policy argument, it's just to inflame a sense of injustice in effort to win the next round of votes.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 12th October 2017 at 05:52 PM.

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    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    IMF: higher taxes for rich will cut inequality without hitting growth
    Its a sad state of affairs when even the IMF give up on right wing rhetoric...
    Cut taxes for Everyone, Cut spending, Repatriate the 3-6 trillion overseas. Tax at a lower rate use that revenue to pay DOWN the national debt 1 or 2 trillion.

    Freeze spending at current levels then cut spending (Real Spending by 1% for the next 5 years)

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    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's never made much sense why so many liberals will on one hand argue (perhaps correctly) that Congress does not need to raise direct tax revenue at all in order to decide to increase poverty amelioration, but then in the next breath acts like it must in order to reduce inequalities in economic wellbeing.

    Assuming educated liberals do comprehend the monetary sovereignty of nations with fiat currency, as they claim to when arguing against deficit hawks, the tax-the-rich rallying cry would seem to be a mere populist chant, given that keeping the sense of injustice and outrage inflamed among the throngs of poor works well to win their vote when the conservative party is in control. This campaign slogan is certainly nothing new, and quite uninteresting.

    The orthodox MMT fans, for example, being more interested in theory and less interested in being cheerleaders for the DNC, aren't very aroused by blanket tax-the-rich schemes. I've heard they might be more interested in higher luxury consumption taxes. But this bores partisan liberals, as it doesn't do enough to maintain the populist outrage.

    Lastly, there's at least some coherence in the approach of someone like Piketty, who acknowledges the national self-harm (capital flight) that can occur because of the cross-border mobility of financial assets, hence why his advocacy is global, recognizing there would need to be international cooperation to address this pitfall.

    But this is also apparently boring to partisan liberals, because the underlying goal isn't any actual change or coherent policy argument, it's just to inflame a sense of injustice in effort to win the next round of votes.
    So, it's only liberals who think that there are unfair advantages to tax policy and that the gap between the haves (in spades) and the have nots is just a figment? The middle class and working poor have not seen their buying power and their former way of life going down the drain as the rich reap all the advantages written into tax policy?

    I suppose you would argue that the upcoming tax reform is aimed at bettering the lives of those two groups over the wealthy? And it's also just the imaginings of the working class that they do better and so does the country under Democrat rule?

    And even those on Soc Sec and the disabled are just fantasizing when they see inflation eating away at what little they do have? Those folks haven't lost each year because of Colas that don't compare to the actual rise in living costs? Just a nation of chronic malcontents.

    Straight out of the GOP playbook and the Rand/Ryan school of economics.
    Thanks from Thx1138 and OldGaffer

  8. #8
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    You wrote:
    Cut taxes for Everyone, Cut spending, Repatriate the 3-6 trillion overseas. Tax at a lower rate use that revenue to pay DOWN the national debt 1 or 2 trillion.


    What revenue? Cutting taxes results in less revenue, not more. Unless you assume instant growth in productivity and new jobs. History, especially recent history shows that tax breaks for the corporations and the wealthy rarely result in anything but more for the already rich.

    They pocket it or ditch it overseas or enhance their personal lifestyles. Listen! Trickle down is a farce! It never happens. The only time tax breaks work to boost the economy is when the working poor and middle class receive the tax breaks.

    They can't afford to save it or buy luxury items because any extra income goes to catching up on bills and/ or paying for healthcare, college, rent or mortgages on principal residences, credit card debt etc., debt accumulated because the cost of living has exceeded their income and it's getting worse.

    There is no sudden influx of revenue when taxes are lowered on the rich. Period. If you believe it does you are buying the bullsnot that the GOP is selling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    IMF: higher taxes for rich will cut inequality without hitting growth
    Its a sad state of affairs when even the IMF give up on right wing rhetoric...
    Increase which taxes? We have many different types of taxes.

  10. #10
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Increase which taxes? We have many different types of taxes.
    Refers directly to income taxes, but others can of course be mentioned. Increased progressivity is consistent with growth. Makes supply side economics look quite backward doesn't it?

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