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Thread: Sales taxes are not more regressive than income taxes.

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    Sales taxes are not more regressive than income taxes.

    Sales taxes are not more regressive than income taxes.


    Expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes.Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes.


    But for those that do not pay income taxes, a general sales tax would be a regressive tax.


    FICA and SECA taxes levied only upon the wage portions of individuals' incomes are the most severe federal taxes impacting the working-poor and their dependents. I'm a proponent for replacing a significant proportion of taxes levied only upon wages and payrolls, and replacing those revenues with a general sales tax.


    This proposal would net increase tax revenues for funding Social Security, Medicare, and the purchasing powers of USA employees and their dependents. The extent of reductions to enterprises' federal taxes are dependent upon the size of their payrolls.


    Governments collect sales taxes from importers of products into their jurisdictions and waive those taxes on their exports. This proposal, rather than a reduction of corporate income taxes would greater reduce price disadvantages of USA competing with foreign products.


    Respectfully,Supposn

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    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    How about a sales tax on financial transactions, like buying a billion dollars worth of stock? Or ten billion worth of real estate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    How about a sales tax on financial transactions, like buying a billion dollars worth of stock? Or ten billion worth of real estate?
    https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/stock/stktridx.htm
    The stock transfer tax is imposed on the sale or transfer of any of the following that occur within New York State:
    stock
    agreements to sell stock
    memoranda of sales of stock
    certificates of stock
    certificates of rights to stock*
    certificates of interest in property or accumulations*
    certificates of deposit
    certificates of interest in business conducted by trustees

    Selling price/ Rate (cents per share)
    Sale or agreement to sell at less than $5 per share / 1 ¼ ¢
    Sale at $5 or more but less than $10 per share / 2 ½ ¢
    Sale at $10 or more but less than $20 per share / 3 ¾ ¢
    Sale at $20 or more per share / 5 ¢
    Transfers of stock or certificates of interest other than by sale / 2 ½ ¢

    OldGaffer, if the U.S. Congress passed a document transfer and registration act that would be similar to NY state's, (an annoyance that wouldn't overly upset the financial community, that would be of tiny consequence with regard to the costs of Medicare and Social Security retirement. But it would have to pass through the U.S. Congress that depends upon campaign contributions.

    If the tax became more than an annoyance, all large scale transactions would be performed by brokers and bankers beyond USA's borders.
    Remember the stamp act was exactly what we're describing. The Stamp Act induced a few wealthy Colonialists, (that were small-time in comparison the the much wealthier English nobility), to initiate a revolution and divorce America from the British Empire.
    Beware of upsetting the wealthy. When you draw your sword against the Emperor, its best to kill him.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    Sales taxes are not more regressive than income taxes.
    ...
    But for those that do not pay income taxes, a general sales tax would be a regressive tax.

    Seems like you want it both ways. If it is only regressive for the people who don't currently make enough to owe income tax, isn't that by definition more regressive? It's like saying "it's only regressive if you are poor".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/stock/stktridx.htm
    The stock transfer tax is imposed on the sale or transfer of any of the following that occur within New York State:
    stock
    agreements to sell stock
    memoranda of sales of stock
    certificates of stock
    certificates of rights to stock*
    certificates of interest in property or accumulations*
    certificates of deposit
    certificates of interest in business conducted by trustees

    Selling price/ Rate (cents per share)
    Sale or agreement to sell at less than $5 per share / 1 ¼ ¢
    Sale at $5 or more but less than $10 per share / 2 ½ ¢
    Sale at $10 or more but less than $20 per share / 3 ¾ ¢
    Sale at $20 or more per share / 5 ¢
    Transfers of stock or certificates of interest other than by sale / 2 ½ ¢

    OldGaffer, if the U.S. Congress passed a document transfer and registration act that would be similar to NY state's, (an annoyance that wouldn't overly upset the financial community, that would be of tiny consequence with regard to the costs of Medicare and Social Security retirement. But it would have to pass through the U.S. Congress that depends upon campaign contributions.

    If the tax became more than an annoyance, all large scale transactions would be performed by brokers and bankers beyond USA's borders.
    Remember the stamp act was exactly what we're describing. The Stamp Act induced a few wealthy Colonialists, (that were small-time in comparison the the much wealthier English nobility), to initiate a revolution and divorce America from the British Empire.
    Beware of upsetting the wealthy. When you draw your sword against the Emperor, its best to kill him.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    Yep, it's safer to go after the less mobil, with fewer assets.

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    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    There are ways to reduce wealth inequality in this country, but sales tax increases are not one of them....
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    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Sales taxes are not more regressive than income taxes.

    Prima facie bullshit.
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    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Supposn is still peddling his "regressive taxes aren't regressive and they can solve trade problems despite having nothing to do with source of the problems" cobblers? Wow. That's a long term commitment he's got going there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    ... Expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes.Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Supposn is still peddling his "regressive taxes aren't regressive and they can solve trade problems despite having nothing to do with source of the problems" cobblers? Wow. That's a long term commitment he's got going there!
    NightSwimmer and Æthelfrith, I don't claim to be able to “prove” this contention to your satisfaction. But can you guys can't even devise a logical argument to respond the contention?
    This proposal would to some extent decrease, but certainly not remedy USA goods' trade deficits' detriments to our economy.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    NightSwimmer and Æthelfrith, I don't claim to be able to “prove” this contention to your satisfaction. But can you guys can't even devise a logical argument to respond the contention?
    This proposal would to some extent decrease, but certainly not remedy USA goods' trade deficits' detriments to our economy.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    Literally, by definition:

    Taxation that takes a larger percentage of a lower-income and a smaller percentage of a higher income. For example, a tax on the basic necessities (which form a larger percentage of the expenditure of the lower income population) is a regressive tax. See also progressive tax.
    You would literally have to propose tax brackets that go down as your income goes up to come up with something more regressive than a sales tax, especially one on basic necessities.

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