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Thread: " If you spend money on universal services, we all win"

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    The inefficiency is generated through using the private sector where it is inappropriate. Market forces, where public expenditures are so key, only induce influence and agency costs
    The private sector is necessary, but the two shouldn't be mixed. Just like public and private education.

    Public health care should be solely dished out by the public sector.

    Private health care should be dependent on market forces, not public monies.

  2. #22
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    The private sector is necessary, but the two shouldn't be mixed. Just like public and private education.
    I don't quite agree. The private sector is not necessary. But both sectors (health and education) should be dominated by the public.

    Public health care should be solely dished out by the public sector.

    Private health care should be dependent on market forces, not public monies.
    Its not realistic to eliminate private health care. But the costs can be high. For example, the public sector heavily subsidises the private provision in the UK. The consultant doctors/surgeons benefit at the expense of all

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    I don't quite agree. The private sector is not necessary. But both sectors (health and education) should be dominated by the public.


    Its not realistic to eliminate private health care. But the costs can be high. For example, the public sector heavily subsidises the private provision in the UK. The consultant doctors/surgeons benefit at the expense of all
    Right, the public and private systems shouldn't be mixed, it creates inefficiencies in both systems, the public system needs its own surgeons to ensure efficiency and outcomes.

  4. #24
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Right, the public and private systems shouldn't be mixed, it creates inefficiencies in both systems, the public system needs its own surgeons to ensure efficiency and outcomes.
    There will always be pressure to mix the two mind you. Once you have these good, with public good characteristics, the profit motive is necessarily corrupting

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    There will always be pressure to mix the two mind you. Once you have these good, with public good characteristics, the profit motive is necessarily corrupting
    Removing the profit motive suppresses innovation and the resultant increases in productivity and efficiency.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Removing the profit motive suppresses innovation and the resultant increases in productivity and efficiency.
    In the industry of widgets. Or snowmobiles. Or running shoes. Yes.

    But not in the field of medicine. The motive to improve and save lives is as strong as the motive for profit.

    What removing the profit motive DOES do is remove the motive for deceit. When profit is removed from medicine the medicines you will see disappear are Hair tonic, penis pumps, weight loss pills, aphrodisiacs... stuff that is blatantly fake, but there’s profit in lying to people that it’s medicinal.

    I’m factbits the

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    In the industry of widgets. Or snowmobiles. Or running shoes. Yes.

    But not in the field of medicine. The motive to improve and save lives is as strong as the motive for profit.

    What removing the profit motive DOES do is remove the motive for deceit. When profit is removed from medicine the medicines you will see disappear are Hair tonic, penis pumps, weight loss pills, aphrodisiacs... stuff that is blatantly fake, but there’s profit in lying to people that it’s medicinal.

    I’m factbits the
    That's why I suggested dishing out health care just like public education. Public health care served up by government doctors, nurses and hospitals.

    There can still be a totally private for profit health care system alongside.

  8. #28
    Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    America should have a vast and generous safety net and benefits package for every citizen. It is the only way to decrease the level of inequality and lessen the burdens of a modern economy on the average person. We are quickly automating most jobs. Those machines doe not magically create as many jobs as they replace. The way technology is going, thirty years from now most of us will be competing with machines or code. That will leave many of us out of the work force unless the government puts us to work. If you want to avoid revolution, the government has to step in where industry cannot.

  9. #29
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    We all win a Death Sentence why.

    1. 20,000,000,000,000 of debt prevents the government from having the funds to adequately fund a 1/2 assed Universal care system
    2. If you get sick in Canada you are more likely to DIE than in the US. Same for UK and Same for every other nation.
    3. Short life expectancy in the US is LIFESTYLE not healthcare causation.
    Guns, maybe. 2 is a lie.

  10. #30
    Retired Admin Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Quality means something different than publicly funded. Sanders shouldn't beat around the bush with wordsmithing like this, saying "we should have quality (x)" instead of what he means, which is "we should publicly fund (x)."



    Leading questions are like flatulence.

    The reason we don't publicly fund all health care is because at least half the country continues to convince itself that health care is a private good, despite the cognitive dissonance that they also fight to preserve and protect laws that establish its public good characteristics.

    As to higher education, we do have quality higher education. Say what you mean. You want it to be publicly funded. It is, and to an increasing degree. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/o...s-so-much.html

    As for weak child care supports, that is a good example of bad prioritization.
    As far as health care goes; you can make it cheaper, high quality, or more accessible. But you have to choose two out of those three because you have to sacrifice one of those things to get the others.

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