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  1. #11
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    It's a gamble. Probably no city needs it more than Newark. If Cleveland had to lose, I'd be pleased to see Newark win.

    If they do, they will see more small businesses, more consumers, more taxpayers....it might pay off for them.
    That's the bind. Effectively the cities are in an auction to buy jobs. Amazon reaps the benefits while the rest of the state pays for them.

  2. #12
    Retired Admin Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Why are they wrong? Landing the Amazon 2nd headquarters brings a significant amount of jobs to an area. Incentives are paid over years and in tax savings.
    The problem is government choosing winners and losers. Those incentives come at the expense of someone else.
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    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    Its a fallacy. There's no free lunch.
    Really? New York state has offered no taxes for ten years to most businesses that relocate to the state. They exclude things like restaurants and law offices but aim for things like production and assembly plants. None, no taxes. It seems to be working to get people to consider the state for their new operations.

  4. #14
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    The problem is government choosing winners and losers. Those incentives come at the expense of someone else.
    Actually, they do not. Think about it. Let's say that I've got a nice huge piece of vacant land in my city, county, state, whatever. How much am I getting in taxes? A token in property taxes, right? On the other hand, if I can attract a large corporation, like Amazon to build a headquarters there, the city, county, state are going to benefit in huge ways, even if they do not get taxes from the company, they still get jobs. Wage earners pay taxes. Wage earners purchase things. These all generate tax dollars. No, it doesn't cost the city, county, state a fortune to get someone to locate a corporation there. It is a money generator for decades to come. Which is why governments are trying to convince Amazon to locate in their market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Actually, they do not. Think about it. Let's say that I've got a nice huge piece of vacant land in my city, county, state, whatever. How much am I getting in taxes? A token in property taxes, right? On the other hand, if I can attract a large corporation, like Amazon to build a headquarters there, the city, county, state are going to benefit in huge ways, even if they do not get taxes from the company, they still get jobs. Wage earners pay taxes. Wage earners purchase things. These all generate tax dollars. No, it doesn't cost the city, county, state a fortune to get someone to locate a corporation there. It is a money generator for decades to come. Which is why governments are trying to convince Amazon to locate in their market.
    You could give the same incentives to the existing small businesses and therein lies the fallacy.
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  6. #16
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    You could give the same incentives to the existing small businesses and therein lies the fallacy.
    Exciting idea, EXCEPT it doesn't accomplish what they want to accomplish, bringing more jobs and businesses to the state. New York is a pretty liberal state, they offer one of the best packages for businesses that are willing to move to New York.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Exciting idea, EXCEPT it doesn't accomplish what they want to accomplish, bringing more jobs and businesses to the state. New York is a pretty liberal state, they offer one of the best packages for businesses that are willing to move to New York.
    Yes, it would because then they would have an additional $7bn to work with that they currently don't, and they would expand and grow.

    Read I, Pencil.....

    On a per capita basis, Americans spend pennies on pencils, but Dixon Ticonderoga is a large hundred million dollar plus business.

    This reveals why the bias that exists for the large is unwarranted.

    Large concentrated expenditures versus widely dispersed costs. Don't fall for it.
    Last edited by publius3; 25th January 2018 at 06:55 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Exciting idea, EXCEPT it doesn't accomplish what they want to accomplish, bringing more jobs and businesses to the state. New York is a pretty liberal state, they offer one of the best packages for businesses that are willing to move to New York.
    The Empire Zones are just a different form of favoritism. Theu favor certain cities, you can google that of course, and certain KINDS of politically favored businesses. Not ALL businesses.

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    As an aside it looks like that program closed?

    https://esd.ny.gov/empire-zones-program

    There are others, some more ridiculous than others.

    One was a good one. 9/11 hurt downtown, so for a while at least Albany gave inducements for businesses to go downtown.

    Time Life which had been in Midtown for decades, even had a building named after them on 6th avenue took them up on the offer. They moved 25% of their workforce downtown and moved the rest to NJ.

    Law of unintended consequences.

  10. #20
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    The Empire Zones are just a different form of favoritism. Theu favor certain cities, you can google that of course, and certain KINDS of politically favored businesses. Not ALL businesses.
    That's true, they exempt businesses like restaurants and law offices that only employ a few people. They want places like manufacturing and assembly plants that will hire a lot of people.

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