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Thread: The restaurant industry ran a private poll on the minimum wage...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think $10 is probably fair for the federal wage. $15 is probably too high for many areas. But I do know from having family members that work in restaurants, that few make that at all. Many only make $2 an hour and make the rest in tips. We have a high brow steakhouse nearby and last year they announced they would begin paying servers a full wage of $12 an hour. A year later, the servers were upset since many customers then stopped tipping. I think a lot of this is relative. If one lives in downtown Seattle, LA, NYC etc and they eat out, people generally tip well and expect pay is decent. But in some areas, you dont see that. Tipping drops off and you hear a lot of "I only make $15 an hour as a machinist, why should they make that?" So thats problematic.
    It's not just about what one job or another *should make according to what we feel like it should make, I think the conversation needs to reference cost of living differences, which is what I think you're suggesting here.

    Although urban vs. rural usually accounts for the most dramatic differences in cost of living even within states, for simplicity let's consider it on a state level. Whatever anyone thinks the federal minimum wage should be, what that should mean is what they think is the appropriate minimum for the lowest cost of living state, which is Mississippi. If the minimum wage *should be $10.00, then it *should also be over $12.00 in nineteen other states, over $15.00 in eight of those nineteen, $16.57 in California, over $18 in Washington D.C., and over $22 in Hawaii. Dollars are worth more in poor, cheap places of the country than they are in rich, expensive places of the country. If it were $15.00 as some people like to advocate, extrapolating it out the same way would put 14 states over $20/hour, with Hawaii as high as $33. The minimum wage would need to vary that much across the states for it to really be a relatively "equal" minimum wage by state. And really, it would need to vary on a municipal level for the same reasons. Federal wage floors don't accomplish that kind of variability relative to cost of living.

    By the way, you know why everyone seems to be clamoring for $15 lately? Like why $15 in particular? What is it about $15? Is it really because when you rewind to 1960-something and then extrapolate whatever it was in one particular year back then (shortly after an increase), that it results in what it supposedly should be today, which just happens to be $15.00?

    Not really. The real reason debate keeps centering on $15 is because it is a slogan that is used as part of a political movement largely backed by Big Labor. The goal of this movement is to excite as many people as possible about increasing the minimum wage. So $15 is chosen not because it makes good policy sense to set the federal wage floor at $15 (meaning rural Oklahoma and Silicon Valley both have a $15 minimum wage). The reason $15 is chosen because it's higher than the current minimum wage practically everywhere, so it achieves maximum excitement from people everywhere. It needs to be that high so that people in New York City will clamor for it all the same as liberals in a low-cost red state's capital city will clamor for it. It appeals to all because it would constitute a wage increase for lowest-paid people everywhere.

    So even though raising the federal minimum to $8.00 or $8.50 or $9.00 would be easier to achieve and less disruptive to already-very-low-cost-of-living rural red state areas, increasing numbers of places already have minimum wages higher than that, so those people wouldn't be excited and mobilized by a higher federal minimum wage that wouldn't impact them or their area. Champions of a $15 minimum wage stay stuck on $15 for purely political reasons, avoiding more modest and gradual federal minimum wage hikes because it doesn't excite and feed the political movement.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 2nd May 2018 at 08:29 AM.

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    Ok, this issue is currently impacting me....I am working as a server here, as I am here for at least another year. I am in NY state and currently we get $7.50 per hour plus tips. We have something called a tip credit...that means if your claimed tips and hourly wage combined fall short of min wage, the employer has to pay you so that your are making min wage at least. With my claimed tips, I earn about 30 to 35 per hour and work 28 to 35 hours per week.

    They are trying to get us paid 15 per hour....this means owners will put a service charge on bills....and tipping will end up stopping and the owners are now in charge of my tips so they can skim them or not give them to me at all,......its a pay cut. No thanks
    Thanks from bajisima

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    Ok, this issue is currently impacting me....I am working as a server here, as I am here for at least another year. I am in NY state and currently we get $7.50 per hour plus tips. We have something called a tip credit...that means if your claimed tips and hourly wage combined fall short of min wage, the employer has to pay you so that your are making min wage at least. With my claimed tips, I earn about 30 to 35 per hour and work 28 to 35 hours per week.

    They are trying to get us paid 15 per hour....this means owners will put a service charge on bills....and tipping will end up stopping and the owners are now in charge of my tips so they can skim them or not give them to me at all,......its a pay cut. No thanks
    It's interesting the way a policy like this can have counter-intuitive effects on certain people or certain industries. And a federal minimum wage of $15 would have far-reaching impacts all over the country. It would just depend hugely on the area, the cost of living there, the economic conditions there, the industry, et cetera. I'm sure we would see ostensibly positive effects in some places as a result of it, and negative effects elsewhere. The incentives to do certain things would be huge in some cases, and almost non-existent in others. And the adjustments that are made in response to a policy like this are not always in favor of any given worker.

    The $15.00 campaign, to the extent that people are chirping for it at the state and/or federal level, is just a campaign. It's intended to agitate and mobilize people. It's not based on reality or smart and effective policy.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's interesting the way a policy like this can have counter-intuitive effects on certain people or certain industries. And a federal minimum wage of $15 would have far-reaching impacts all over the country. It would just depend hugely on the area, the cost of living there, the economic conditions there, the industry, et cetera. I'm sure we would see ostensibly positive effects in some places as a result of it, and negative effects elsewhere. The incentives to do certain things would be huge in some cases, and almost non-existent in others. And the adjustments that are made in response to a policy like this are not always in favor of any given worker.

    The $15.00 campaign, to the extent that people are chirping for it at the state and/or federal level, is just a campaign. It's intended to agitate and mobilize people. It's not based on reality or smart and effective policy.
    A living wage would need to be determined by a more localized cost of living....federal is too broad.

    Servers make more than min wage and this fight is being sold as seeking more money for servers, it isnt, its a pay cut and will harm small mom and pop places but benefit large chains. An employer will now get our tips and dole them out AS THEY SEE FIT..which can mean they pocket it all.

    BTW, if I earn 15 per hour no matter what...why would I ever want to work a friday or sat night? I would rather do a tues night and get the same money for less work.
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  5. #55
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    Ok, this issue is currently impacting me....I am working as a server here, as I am here for at least another year. I am in NY state and currently we get $7.50 per hour plus tips. We have something called a tip credit...that means if your claimed tips and hourly wage combined fall short of min wage, the employer has to pay you so that your are making min wage at least. With my claimed tips, I earn about 30 to 35 per hour and work 28 to 35 hours per week.

    They are trying to get us paid 15 per hour....this means owners will put a service charge on bills....and tipping will end up stopping and the owners are now in charge of my tips so they can skim them or not give them to me at all,......its a pay cut. No thanks
    Yes when my daughters were servers, it was the same thing, they preferred to get the tips than raise their wages and get no tips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think $10 is probably fair for the federal wage. $15 is probably too high for many areas. But I do know from having family members that work in restaurants, that few make that at all. Many only make $2 an hour and make the rest in tips. We have a high brow steakhouse nearby and last year they announced they would begin paying servers a full wage of $12 an hour. A year later, the servers were upset since many customers then stopped tipping. I think a lot of this is relative. If one lives in downtown Seattle, LA, NYC etc and they eat out, people generally tip well and expect pay is decent. But in some areas, you dont see that. Tipping drops off and you hear a lot of "I only make $15 an hour as a machinist, why should they make that?" So thats problematic.
    I have never heard of someone being cheap on a tip because the waiter made a particular minimum wage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Well yea. I dont know if you ever worked in the service industry or had family there, but there is definitely a "vibe" by some in relation to it. Some people are just mean and figure you are there to serve them. They dont tip and are rude and condescending. They dont care if you are working to get a PhD, they just figure, "serve me." My daughter used to tell me stories about people that tipped and those who didnt. It was amazing. Its also an industry where tips are normally more than their income so they take it very seriously. Where she worked the owner gave the servers the choice, either pay a full wage or continue to pay $2.35 or whatever it was at the time. The servers opted for the $2 because they knew from their clientele they would lose tips.
    I simply don't believe it. Some restaurants where I live a decent dinner for two is $150 and waiters are making $400-$700 a night easy. Do you think people are cheap with their tips there because they know the waiter makes a killing? No of course not. Do you think if they made $15 hr everyone would tip less? Of course not, 99% of customers have no idea what the waiter makes by the hour.

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    But you are all for the dumbfuck trump initiating tariffs that will cost Americans more for everything from a tomato to a new car. incredible.
    Thanks from Dittohead not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    That would mean no more tips. Be careful what you wish for and how it will affect industries. They now get tips because they get below minimum wages
    fucking bullshit. I travel the country regularly and tip the same anywhere I go regardless of what the waiters minimum wage is and so does 99% of others. To say people tip differently because of the minimum wage is plain fucking stupid.

    How about you Boon, I tip minimum 15% for shitty service and 20+ for good service do you tip 5% because waiters in your area have a respectable minimum wage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The point is the democrats want to do away with tips which is good for me. I have always had a problem with people working for $3 an hour and depending on tips
    Where the fuck did you ever get that idea?

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