Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 51
Thanks Tree80Thanks

Thread: The Real Villain Behind Our New Gilded Age

  1. #21
    Member
    Joined
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,935
    Thanks
    1111

    From
    TN
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Unprecedented economic growth and prosperity does tend to ease strife. Taxes were high in part to pay down history's biggest ever war debt. This was back when we were still calling our currency commodity backed, so that was important. We needed a lot more basic manual labor in manufacturing back then. We don't anymore. Outsourcing to poor nations overseas wasn't a realistic option back then. It is now. There are fundamental differences between then and now.

    But all these commentaries essentially boil down to a correlation/causation problem. They point to the 1950s, comment on how great everything was, note that unions were strong and taxes were high, and then try to leave the reader with the impression that high taxes and strong unions simply cause those economic conditions.
    There were certain TAX RATES that were high, but overall taxes were much lower and far from the halcyon days liberals think the 1950s were, let's not forget the Korean War, there were FOUR recessions. Just two were in 49 and 60 so we can't say there were 4 recessions in a decade EXACTLY.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    64,475
    Thanks
    36036

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    There were certain TAX RATES that were high, but overall taxes were much lower and far from the halcyon days liberals think the 1950s were, let's not forget the Korean War, there were FOUR recessions. Just two were in 49 and 60 so we can't say there were 4 recessions in a decade EXACTLY.
    It's interesting the level of double talk we see on this issue. Like two articles from AEI, one titled Were Tax Rates Really Higher in the 1950's" (clearly implying they weren't) and another titled "Why We Can't go Back to Sky High, 1950's Tax Rates.". What's really funny is that, in the second article, the author points out that progressives like Stiglitz don't even WANT rates on the Uber-wealthy back at 90%.

    In arguments like this, conservatives posit the lefty position in whatever place they like so as to make it a convenient paper-tiger to whatever argument they are making at the time.

  3. #23
    Member
    Joined
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,935
    Thanks
    1111

    From
    TN
    Well the 1950s code had 10000 pages of loopholes actually. For instance, Mayer from Metro Goldwyn Mayer got a $2mn bonus or something and you'd think he would pay a fair percentage of that at 90% marginal rate, but he didn't, he got 25% I think.

    Issue 1 is the applicability of the rate and there is evidence of widespread loopholes.
    Issue 2 is how much the government is, in total, imposing on people with taxes and spending generally

    You can probably estimate what you would pay by googling 50s tax rate brackets adjusted to 2018 dollars and you can figure out what you would pay.

    I did it once and at NJ state level, well, that didn't even exist. Social Security was like a fifth and federal taxation naturally taxes at the margin.

    1950s would tax me far, far less. And even if we assume it would impose more on Buffet (we will presume he can't wiggle out of it), overall Americans would still be taxed less in the aggregate.

    But if the deal is a 1950s fiscal paradigm, trust me, I'd take that deal EVEN WITH those rates, though I don't think those rates would be helpful. In fact there are some things about 1950s spending which really wouldn't need to be spent, ie defense spending was ENORMOUS. Eisenhower have military industrial complex speech when defense was 6% of GDP, that'd be like a $1.2tn military budget today which would be just DOUBLY insane.
    Last edited by publius3; 3rd May 2018 at 08:45 AM.
    Thanks from Neomalthusian

  4. #24
    your better Rev. Hellh0und's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    38,952
    Thanks
    4161

    From
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    The first requirement for membership in #Trumpcult is a closed mind.




    So much irony.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    15,079
    Thanks
    4027

    From
    AK & ID
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    In arguments like this, conservatives posit the lefty position in whatever place they like so as to make it a convenient paper-tiger to whatever argument they are making at the time.
    There is no twisting of this left wing talking point. They constantly point to the tippy top tax rates of the 1950s as an example supporting their desire to raise taxes on the rich as a way of reducing income or wealth inequality. There is no way to straw man that argument.

    But what this argument will always fail to acknowledge (even intentionally, to try to preserve the talking point) is the way the global economy is different now than it was back then, and the way federal taxation differs in concept and purpose under fiat currency relative to commodity-backed currency.
    Thanks from publius3 and Trumpet

  6. #26
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    64,475
    Thanks
    36036

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There is no twisting of this left wing talking point. They constantly point to the tippy top tax rates of the 1950s as an example supporting their desire to raise taxes on the rich as a way of reducing income or wealth inequality. There is no way to straw man that argument.

    But what this argument will always fail to acknowledge (even intentionally, to try to preserve the talking point) is the way the global economy is different now than it was back then, and the way federal taxation differs in concept and purpose under fiat currency relative to commodity-backed currency.
    I think I've pretty well shown that this argument is a straw man...a straw man that keeps changing based on whatever its users want to argue. You folks don't know what it is you want to say...it keeps changing. Do you want lower overall rates or just not have high rates for the very wealthiest? Hard to tell....the story keeps changing.
    Thanks from Panzareta

  7. #27
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    15,079
    Thanks
    4027

    From
    AK & ID
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I think I've pretty well shown that this argument is a straw man...a straw man that keeps changing based on whatever its users want to argue. You folks don't know what it is you want to say...it keeps changing. Do you want lower overall rates or just not have high rates for the very wealthiest? Hard to tell....the story keeps changing.
    I havenít seen any straw man identified. The reference to the highest top marginal tax rates of the 1950s is continuous. Thereís no real way to bastardize that.

    But there is no interest on the part of the repeaters of this talking point to really examine the 1950s, or any of the differences between then and now. Itís just a talking point.
    Thanks from publius3

  8. #28
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    64,475
    Thanks
    36036

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I haven’t seen any straw man identified. The reference to the highest top marginal tax rates of the 1950s is continuous. There’s no real way to bastardize that.

    But there is no interest on the part of the repeaters of this talking point to really examine the 1950s, or any of the differences between then and now. It’s just a talking point.
    More straw man. The tell is that you are talking about your opponents and telling us what they think and say rather than making your point.
    Thanks from Panzareta and OldGaffer

  9. #29
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    40,743
    Thanks
    42791

    From
    Nashville, TN
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hellh0und View Post
    So much irony.
    Case in point...
    Thanks from boontito

  10. #30
    Populist Rabblerouser Ronin Tetsuro's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    17,172
    Thanks
    1036

    From
    Broadcast Depth
    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    How can anyone doubt that it goes a long way toward explaining why worker's wages have stagnated and corporate profits have skyrocketed.
    Easy. Most Americans are simpletons who have been programmed to loathe doing or saying anything that protects their own interests. The dogma of Corporate is the gospel according to CNN Money, Amen.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 22nd January 2016, 03:02 AM
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 18th December 2014, 03:50 PM
  3. Angela Corey, Villain Extraordinaire....
    By Taylor2012 in forum Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 19th July 2013, 12:20 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12th November 2012, 04:44 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed