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Thread: 100% Renewable Energy Economy IS Possible

  1. #11
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Addressing the skeptics of the claim that it is not only possible but quite affordable to develop an economy based on 100% renewable energy sources:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0517113812.htm
    There are no roadblocks... No, there's no reason why you can't just keep throwing up panels and turbines until everyone has power.

    Especially when you are looking at Africa. In many places it's that or nothing. It's not like there's a cost comparison. Can scale up as you need it.

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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    There are no roadblocks... No, there's no reason why you can't just keep throwing up panels and turbines until everyone has power.

    Especially when you are looking at Africa. In many places it's that or nothing. It's not like there's a cost comparison. Can scale up as you need it.
    Sounds like you're AGREEING with the article. Which surprises me, frankly.

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    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Sounds like you're AGREEING with the article. Which surprises me, frankly.


    Most of my disagreement is for grid scale energy where there are cheaper and more readily available alternatives.

    Where the grid is already shoddy at best, it is relatively easy to provide panels that can generate power right next to where it's used; I wager most of Africa is in a good solar radiance zone (also not the same for North America (especially the more North of Texas you go).

    I'm particularly not a fan of wind power as it is; I did like the micro wind generators, they can produce useable current at like 2 kph, and aren't as much the hazard to wildlife... it just takes a lot of them .

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    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    There are no roadblocks... No, there's no reason why you can't just keep throwing up panels and turbines until everyone has power.

    Especially when you are looking at Africa. In many places it's that or nothing. It's not like there's a cost comparison. Can scale up as you need it.
    The turbines cost a millions dollars each and need maintenance so there is no cost advantage and they will never produce enough electricity to stop using oil or natural gas. They are not efficient or cost effective
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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The turbines cost a millions dollars each and need maintenance so there is no cost advantage and they will never produce enough electricity to stop using oil or natural gas. They are not efficient or cost effective
    Quite obviously, the authors of the linked article beg to differ with you. And, unlike you, they happen to be honest-to-God scientists.
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    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Quite obviously, the authors of the linked article beg to differ with you. And, unlike you, they happen to be honest-to-God scientists.
    I know the facts. They do not care about costs and ignore the affect on animal life
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  7. #17
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I know the facts. They do not care about costs and ignore the affect on animal life
    It would seem that you did not even bother to read the linked article. Here is an excerpt:

    "Furthermore, these solutions are absolutely affordable, especially given the sinking costs of wind and solar power," says Professor Christian Breyer of Lappeenranta University of Technology, who co-authored the response.

    Brown cites the worst-case solution of hydrogen or synthetic gas produced with renewable electricity for times when imports, hydroelectricity, batteries, and other storage fail to bridge the gap during low wind and solar periods during the winter. For maintaining stability there is a series of technical solutions, from rotating grid stabilisers to newer electronics-based solutions. The scientists have collected examples of best practice by grid operators from across the world, from Denmark to Tasmania.

    Furthermore, these solutions are absolutely affordable, especially given the sinking costs of wind and solar power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Addressing the skeptics of the claim that it is not only possible but quite affordable to develop an economy based on 100% renewable energy sources:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0517113812.htm
    Can it fuel tankers that ship goods across the oceans all over the world?
    Can it run semi-trailer trucks that ship goods across the land all over the world?
    Can it fuel planes?
    Can it create petro-chemical fertilizers that artificially enhance agricultural productivity in otherwise nutrient-depleted soil?

    No? Then we still have some issues.

    This was why I chose the alias Neomalthusian all those years ago when I was a clever young lad. Whenever the day comes that the EROEI on fossil fuels extraction is 1.0 or less, we will have some fundamental problems with our ability to meet the needs of the population at that time, which means that population will need to decline before we could ever hope to sustain purely on 100% renewables. And not only would there need to be population decline, but the people remaining will need to regress to a family farm model of survival reminiscent of centuries (or even millennia) prior, kind of like Malthus suggested. Hopefully, however, using renewables and much better science and technology, but small-farm-sustainability nonetheless, somewhat like Malthus envisioned.

    Selfishly, I hope that day is beyond my grandchildren's lifetime.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 18th May 2018 at 09:49 PM.

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    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The turbines cost a millions dollars each and need maintenance so there is no cost advantage and they will never produce enough electricity to stop using oil or natural gas. They are not efficient or cost effective
    There are smaller turbines than that, but generally this is accurate, but talking of micro turbines. It's not like there's going to be huge power demand.

    I was thinkin more for solar. If it's solar or nothing, it's easier to buy a few panels to start than the millions for a gas generator that depends on supply lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Addressing the skeptics of the claim that it is not only possible but quite affordable to develop an economy based on 100% renewable energy sources:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0517113812.htm
    Then why don't companies do it?

    If it's so affordable I see no reason why companies couldn't start offering these alternative sources of energy to consumers at a cheaper price. What's stopping them?

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