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Thread: President Trump's Tariffs

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    The real questions are not tariffs but how to make American manufactured products competitive on foreign markets. The USA export much less than other developped countries proportionally to their respective economical sizes and it is with other developped economies like the ones of Northern Europe not a question of difference in wages which would make American products more expensive than similar local ones.

    It is a structural problem which goes back to a lack of skilled manpower in the US, a lack of Investments and difficulties to adjust to other mentalities. ...
    Galatin, I agree with some of what you write. Every nation could benefit from improving their educational and training systems. Such improvements would be reflected to no less extent by the induced improvement of their economic and social conditions. USA's educational and training systems are (in comparison to other nation's, are not justifiable cause for pride, and when compared to many other nations, it's a matter to our shame.

    We Americans are guilty of hubris; (we actually believe the term Americans” rather than “United States of America” distinguishes us from all other North or South Americans). We elected a president who's the epitome of hubris.

    This hubris led us to enter Vietnam after the French and Afghanistan after the Russians had left. Most Americans believe OUR, (if not only Their) taste is best without any regard for the concept, “In matters of taste, there can be no argument”.

    In aggregate, we “Americans” believe that whatever we do and however we do it is the best and absolutely right because WE are doing it.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    Last edited by Supposn; 1st June 2018 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    The real questions are not tariffs but how to make American manufactured products competitive on foreign markets. The USA export much less than other developped countries proportionally to their respective economical sizes and it is with other developped economies like the ones of Northern Europe not a question of difference in wages which would make American products more expensive than similar local ones. It is a structural problem which goes back to a lack of skilled manpower in the US, a lack of Investments and difficulties to adjust to other mentalities. So if you put tariffs on foreign imports you will not cure the causes of this problem but only give room for more profits for American manufacturers without being sure, that they will invest them in improving industrial performance. And there is a big risk of retaliation from countries which will have their exports taxed. Foreign companies will probably improve their own performance for going on exporting to the US. So it will be more a loose loose game than anything else at first than anything else but at the end who will be left behind.
    Galatin, until that glorious time when the USA's is able to regain our ability to better compete in world trade, the USA must deal with the economy that we have. We are the nation with the world's greatest trade deficit of goods. Nation's annual trade deficits indicate to what extent their use and consumption of goods and services exceed their domestic production.
    Trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations' GDP and they drag upon their numbers of jobs. I'm among the proponents of a particular species of Import Certificate policy.

    Regardless of how poorly or how well a nation's GDP performs, if the nation would otherwise experience a trade deficit of goods, this Import Certificate policy would increase that nation's annual GDP and numbers of jobs, and those job's purchasing powers more than otherwise.

    Adoption of the policy does not deny the nation of resources for any other proposals to improve the nation.
    Regardless of how other nation's would react to USA adopting this policy, the policy would improve our economy more than otherwise.

    Respectfully, Supposn

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    Galatin, We have differing viewpoints that account for some disagreements between us but your posts are often, (maybe usually) thought provoking. I doubt USA lacks commercial credit or our entrepreneurs lack willingness to risk, but that's certainly the case with our public credit.

    We do invest too heavily for into our military. For political motives we often invest into projects and hardware that our own military leaders do not consider to be worthy of such financial priority.
    We are much less willing to invest in our public and quasi-public infrastructure.

    Regarding spending for public and quasi-public infrastructure, your comment induced me to post “ Spending for public and quasi-public infrastructure: ”.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    What personally I see every time we wanted to develop makets in the USA in the field of dentisty,wemet the sameobstacle,i.e. the lack of qualified Manpower.Wecould find top engineers but no skilled workers in that field, because there are no school which train dental technicians. And it happens for other Swiss exporters which face the same obstacle. I do not consider that it is something global and it is everywhere so in the USA, but it is a problem. Therefore the point is that whatever the US do to produce by themselves what they needinstead of importing it, there is a need to have a skilled Manpower and for that you have to train it, which takesyears as we do in Switzerland where 2/3 of the youngnsters go through apprenticeship. So we have enough skilled workers to produce sophisticate industrial products like in the field of micro mechanics and even if our products are very expensive because of the standard of living in my country, wages, rents etc.… we are able to export. In that prospect the USA seem left behind.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Growing U.S. trade deficit with China cost more than 2.7 million jobs between 2001 and 2011, with job losses in every state.

    https://www.epi.org/publication/bp34...-deficit-cost/

    China has reduced tariffs on certain commodities with the US as a result thus lowering the trade deficit and the left are not happy
    So you raise the price of steel and aluminum, which makes cars more expensive in an effort to sell more cars overseas.

    I really don't get how that is supposed to work.
    Thanks from RNG

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    What personally I see every time we wanted to develop markets in the USA in the field of dentisty, we met the sameobstacle,i.e. the lack of qualified Manpower.Wecould find top engineers but no skilled workers in that field, because there are no school which train dental technicians. And it happens for other Swiss exporters which face the same obstacle. I do not consider that it is something global and it is everywhere so in the USA, but it is a problem. Therefore the point is that whatever the US do to produce by themselves what they needinstead of importing it, there is a need to have a skilled Manpower and for that you have to train it, which takesyears as we do in Switzerland where 2/3 of the youngnsters go through apprenticeship. So we have enough skilled workers to produce sophisticate industrial products like in the field of micro mechanics and even if our products are very expensive because of the standard of living in my country, wages, rents etc.… we are able to export. In that prospect the USA seem left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    Galatin, I agree with some of what you write. Every nation could benefit from improving their educational and training systems. Such improvements would be reflected to no less extent by the induced improvement of their economic and social conditions. USA's educational and training systems are (in comparison to other nation's, are not justifiable cause for pride, and when compared to many other nations, it's a matter to our shame.

    Galatin, we Americans are guilty of hubris; ... In aggregate, we “Americans” believe that whatever we do and however we do it is the best and absolutely right because WE are doing it. ...
    Galatin, I don't understand why you quoted a post unrelated to the sub-topic you're responding to? As you see,regarding this facet of the topic we were and are in complete agreement.
    Respectfully, Supposn

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    So you raise the price of steel and aluminum, which makes cars more expensive in an effort to sell more cars overseas.

    I really don't get how that is supposed to work.
    Read into the full story. The tariffs have opened the Chinese market, they've relented and reduced tariffs across certain commodities. Apparently, it's an unorthodox approach but it has worked.

    He's trying the same approach with the EU, it gets them negotiating, quickly.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Read into the full story. The tariffs have opened the Chinese market, they've relented and reduced tariffs across certain commodities. Apparently, it's an unorthodox approach but it has worked.

    He's trying the same approach with the EU, it gets them negotiating, quickly.
    Commodities? You mean like soybeans? Coal, LNG?

    This is the sector of the economy we are trying to boost?

    We're already selling commodities just fine. We need to sell more finished products. How is this helping that? You want everyone to be a farmer, work in a steel mill or a mine? What about gravel? Why don't we all get rich selling gravel?

    BETTER jobs is what we should be trying to protect and increase. Commodities are the same world over, there's no skill or expertise, no technical genius required to produce commodities. No skill and competition is based totally on price, which head to head we can't compete with in most cases because the labor rate in China is so low.

    Good grief why are we trying to backwards in our economic development? Trump has chosen to promote sectors of the economy that that won't produce growth.

    Think about any job out there. Take a restaurant. Who is the most valuable person in the kitchen? The guy who peels potatoes or the chef?

    Let the Chinese workers who make a dollar an hour peel the potatoes and let the US turn them into french fries and make more money!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    [COLOR=#141414]...I'm among the proponent of the improved policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. It is superior to free trade or tariff policy. It would very significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate USA's chronic annual trade deficits in a manner that would increase USA's domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. ...

    ...We suppose Trump's tariffs on aluminum and steel will not do so, but the tariffs limitations would rather reduce our net production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. If USA taxes imported aluminum and steel, it's preferable that we tax all USA imports, from all nations to the extents their shipments to us contain aluminum or steel

    It's not logical to “protect” USA steel mills but leave their USA customers at disadvantage to imports using cheaper foreign steel, and USA's trade laws should not be judging other nation's wage scales.
    When USA customers for USA steel are crowded out of the markets, where's the market for USA steel produced by higher earning USA labor? Additionally, because tariffs, unlike Import Certificates would only be applicable to steel and aluminum, those USA products will continue to be crowded out by any goods or service products that could serve as an alternative to products made with steel or aluminum. ...
    ...Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    So you raise the price of steel and aluminum, which makes cars more expensive in an effort to sell more cars overseas.

    I really don't get how that is supposed to work.
    Blueneck, I don't believe it will work. Respectfully, Supposn
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    Blueneck, I don't believe it will work. Respectfully, Supposn
    and, if a trade war ensues, what will be long and short term effects?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Commodities? You mean like soybeans? Coal, LNG?

    This is the sector of the economy we are trying to boost?

    We're already selling commodities just fine. We need to sell more finished products. How is this helping that? You want everyone to be a farmer, work in a steel mill or a mine? What about gravel? Why don't we all get rich selling gravel?

    BETTER jobs is what we should be trying to protect and increase. Commodities are the same world over, there's no skill or expertise, no technical genius required to produce commodities. No skill and competition is based totally on price, which head to head we can't compete with in most cases because the labor rate in China is so low.

    Good grief why are we trying to backwards in our economic development? Trump has chosen to promote sectors of the economy that that won't produce growth.

    Think about any job out there. Take a restaurant. Who is the most valuable person in the kitchen? The guy who peels potatoes or the chef?

    Let the Chinese workers who make a dollar an hour peel the potatoes and let the US turn them into french fries and make more money!
    Slartibartfast and Blueneck, bottom line, USA's chronic annual trade deficits indicate that we use and consume more goods and service products than we produce. Trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations domestic production and drag upon their nation's numbers of jobs.

    I'm among the proponent of the improved policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article that is superior to free trade or tariff policy.

    Slartibartfast, China's is reducing their tariffs and Trump may negotiate better terms with the Europeans, but how much difference can that make? Every year, USA's (by far), continues to achieve the greatest of all national trade deficits.

    The purchasing powers of our minimum and are median wage has often been reduced and never has increased in the past half-century. The gap between the haves and have-nots continue to increase, as thus the proportion of our poor relative to the more wealthy portion of our population. That's what lesser median wage's purchasing power indicates.

    BlueNeck, I understand that you do not wish to be a farmer, rancher, miner, or an assembly-line worker. But many people would be pleased if they had the skills and knowledge to perform those tasks and if their were more USA jobs for those that could perform those tasks.
    If the USA doesn't produce goods, there are less jobs for engineers, accountants, software experts, carpenters, statisticians, waiters, cooks, salesmen, janitors … whatever. We all do better when we all do better.

    The Import Certificate policy treats all foreign nations and all industries and enterprises within any nation, in the same equitable manner. If there's a market for USA producer's product, they should have a real opportunity to sell their product.

    Improving USA's educational and training systems would most improve our nation's economic and social conditions. Promoting standard testing and evaluation of students throughout the nation, and publishing each schools' aggregate performance and informing parents as to how their children rank among their school peers, children in their counties, states, and nations other schools, would hopefully give parents the tools to hold their local and state governments accountable for their schools' administrations.

    If the U.S. Congress and our federal Department of Education would actually achieve that, rather than just discussing it, it would hopefully accelerate the improvement of our nation.
    Does anyone doubt that we need to improve?
    Refer to post #25 of this thread.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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