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Thread: Trump's birthday gift to America - A booming economy

  1. #31
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Every economic indicator is higher is better than it has been in over a decade, if not booming, better that in ten years?
    More lies. EVERY Economic indicator?

    (1) The budget deficit is HIGHER, and hence so too is the national debt. That would be considered a BAD thing, not a good thing.

    (2) The trade deficit is MUCH higher, at its highest point in more than a decade, in fact, and Mr. Trump certainly considers that to be a bad thing, whether you do or not.

    (3) America's national saving is PLUMMETING.

    (4) Corporate debt is WAY up, and in fact at a record-high.

    (5) Consumer Confidence has actually FALLEN slightly since Mr. Trump took office, as per the University of Michigan Consumer Confidence Survey.

    I can probably dig up more negative indicators, but that's enough to expose your bullshit for now.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    More lies. EVERY Economic indicator?

    (1) The budget deficit is HIGHER, and hence so too is the national debt. That would be considered a BAD thing, not a good thing.

    (2) The trade deficit is MUCH higher, at its highest point in more than a decade, in fact, and Mr. Trump certainly considers that to be a bad thing, whether you do or not.

    (3) America's national saving is PLUMMETING.

    (4) Corporate debt is WAY up, and in fact at a record-high.

    (5) Consumer Confidence has actually FALLEN slightly since Mr. Trump took office, as per the University of Michigan Consumer Confidence Survey.

    I can probably dig up more negative indicators, but that's enough to expose your bullshit for now.
    Obama added $1.4 trillion to the national debt in 2016, Trump added $0.666 trillion in 2017 and will add $1 trillion this year, that is an improvement.

    Prosperity increases the trade deficit.

    Americans are confident in the Trumpconomy and are out spending.

    Corporations have more cash on hand than ever in the history of the United States of America.


    Consumer Confidence is higher than at any point until Donald J Trump was elected and BO was rejected at the polls in November 2016.

    Anything else?

    Good Times Are Here Again!

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Obama added $1.4 trillion to the national debt in 2016, Trump added $0.666 trillion in 2017 and will add $1 trillion this year, that is an improvement.

    Prosperity increases the trade deficit.

    Americans are confident in the Trumpconomy and are out spending.

    Corporations have more cash on hand than ever in the history of the United States of America.


    Consumer Confidence is higher than at any point until Donald J Trump was elected and BO was rejected at the polls in November 2016.

    Anything else?

    Good Times Are Here Again!
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#3580dc751a3e

    How much did the total deficit rise by each President since Reagan

    Again using data from the St. Louis Federal Reserve, these are starting and ending federal debt numbers since President Reagan. I’ve computed the total percentage increase and the compounded yearly rate.
    What the numbers show is that the total debt increased the most at 184% over 8 years and at the fastest rate under President Reagan at almost 14% per year. In fact, the three Republican presidents had the fastest growing debt on a yearly basis.

    Reagan
    Started Presidency: $965 billion
    Ended Presidency: $2.74 trillion
    Increased 184% or 13.9% per year

    H.W. Bush
    Started Presidency: $2.74 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $4.23 trillion
    Increased 54% or 11.5% per year (only in office for four years)

    Clinton
    Started Presidency: $4.23 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $5.77 trillion
    Increased 36% or 4.0% per year

    W. Bush
    Started Presidency: $5.77 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $11.1 trillion
    Increased 93% or 8.5% per year

    Obama
    Started Presidency: $11.1 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $19.85 trillion
    Increased 78% or 7.5% per year

    President Obama’s debt actually grew at a slower annual rate than any of the Republican presidents even though there were events that negatively impacted the deficit that started before he became President. The Great Recession is probably the biggest of them as can be seen in the yearly deficit numbers. While all politicians use data to support their positions, the sound bite that the debt doubled under Obama is very misleading.
    And even though Obama slowed the debt growth after GWB's recession, he still didn't turn it around, so I'm not giving anyone a passing grade here. Let me help out my little rightie buddies here that don't know economics very well. If the bank loans you a million dollars and you spend it, it doesn't make you a millionaire. Every single positive economic indicator is paid for on loaned money. It's not going to be a real booming economy until we get our debt under control.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#3580dc751a3e



    And even though Obama slowed the debt growth after GWB's recession, he still didn't turn it around, so I'm not giving anyone a passing grade here. Let me help out my little rightie buddies here that don't know economics very well. If the bank loans you a million dollars and you spend it, it doesn't make you a millionaire. Every single positive economic indicator is paid for on loaned money. It's not going to be a real booming economy until we get our debt under control.
    The national debt was $10.6 trillion when Obama took office, you should stop reading opinion pieces as fact.


    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/de...dDay=&endYear=

    Date Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding
    01/20/2009 6,307,310,739,681.66 4,319,566,309,231.42 10,626,877,048,913.08

  5. #35
    Wawa Skittletits BDBoop's Avatar
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    I really wish he was celebrating by resigning, but obviously that was too much to hope for.

  6. #36
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    The national debt was $10.6 trillion when Obama took office, you should stop reading opinion pieces as fact.


    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/de...dDay=&endYear=

    Date Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding
    01/20/2009 6,307,310,739,681.66 4,319,566,309,231.42 10,626,877,048,913.08
    Well... if you read the link, it talked about the merit of percentages over dollar figures. But whatever.... I don't really care what you think about Obama because this thread is not about Obama.

    This thread is about right now and right now the President is Trump right? Trump is paying for our "booming economy" with loaned money. That is not a good economy. That is not sustainable. That was not sustainable when anyone did it, and Trump is no exception. The "booming economy " is an illusion. You can be fooled all you want. But anyone with an ounce of common sense knows better.
    Thanks from BigLeRoy and OldGaffer

  7. #37
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Well... if you read the link, it talked about the merit of percentages over dollar figures. But whatever.... I don't really care what you think about Obama because this thread is not about Obama.

    This thread is about right now and right now the President is Trump right? Trump is paying for our "booming economy" with loaned money. That is not a good economy. That is not sustainable. That was not sustainable when anyone did it, and Trump is no exception. The "booming economy " is an illusion. You can be fooled all you want. But anyone with an ounce of common sense knows better.
    We are borrowing money from China, and we are using SOME of that money to build missiles, and we are then pointing at least SOME of those missiles right back at China.

    It's a funny world, isn't it, Chief?

  8. #38
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    [QUOTE=Libertine;5962757]It must be tough to be an Obama apologist these days. [quote]

    I wouldn't know. I defend or attack Obama as the facts require.

    For eight years you had the go to line that sub 2% is the new normal
    I don't know anyone who said that. We broke over 2% growth in half of Obama's years.... and that was despite the drag of the most rapid deficit decrease since WWII demobilization. Granted, if you count 2009, when the nation was still in the midst of the second of Bush's two recessions, overall GDP growth on Obama's watch was poor. But we averaged over 2% for his last seven years.

    Donald J Trump is showing how bad Obama was on economic matters.
    How so? We're using massive deficit increases to stimulate the economy and yet mostly just continuing the trend lines left by Obama.

    You are truly the king of deception and irrelevant cites.
    If you think I'm lying, cite something I said, and then provide the information showing it's a lie. A "lie" isn't merely a fact that makes you sad.

    For example this is from your first cite demonstrating how great Paul Krugman is thought by real economists
    I provided five links, in order to show Krugman's influence using different measures. That included a ranking of media mentions, yes, but also a ranking of citations, Klout score (measuring social media influence), and a survey of 2999 US economics professors.

    Look, I get it: you're embarrassed. Having obtained your view of the world through a strict conservative-media filter, you were under the false impression that Krugman had lost all credibility. And so you were deeply humiliated when confronted with such broad evidence of his enduring influence, both with the general public and with professional economists. But here's the thing to remember: your failure does not constitute a lie on my part. It's up to you to conform your views to the real world, not up to me to shelter you from the parts of the real world that reveal your ignorance.

    How could you claim that Krugman is mainstream or moderate when the title of his blog is Conscience of a Liberal?
    How could you imagine that titling his blog that way suggests his economics aren't mainstream?

    The federal budget deficit doesn't properly account for debt, it treats debt as income.
    Yes, we've been over your misunderstanding of federal accounting a few times now. Let me know if you really need a refresher or whether you're just trolling.

    According to your FRED cite, real GDP was 16851420 at the beginning of 2017 and 17286497, that is a 2.58% increase.
    You're using quarterly growth there. Go back to the Fred site, modify the frequency to annual, and then calculate again. You'll see that the increase was from 16716164 to 17096179, which is about 2.27%. That's consistent with the usual way annual GDP growth rates are calculated. For example, see the Bureau of Economic Analysis site:

    https://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xlsx

    As you can see, they list 2017's GDP growth as 2.3% (2.27% rounded to the nearest tenth of a percentage point). You'll also see that is the number widely quoted in the financial and mainstream press:

    Trump didn't get his 3%-plus economic growth for 2017, after all
    GDP growth below expectations in fourth quarter of 2017 | TheHill
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/b...p-economy.html

    So, before accusing someone else of being "totally dishonest," wouldn't it be a good idea for you to check whether maybe you're just doing a calculation in a non-standard way?

  9. #39
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    [QUOTE=Arkady;5964769][QUOTE=Libertine;5962757]It must be tough to be an Obama apologist these days.

    I wouldn't know. I defend or attack Obama as the facts require.



    I don't know anyone who said that. We broke over 2% growth in half of Obama's years.... and that was despite the drag of the most rapid deficit decrease since WWII demobilization. Granted, if you count 2009, when the nation was still in the midst of the second of Bush's two recessions, overall GDP growth on Obama's watch was poor. But we averaged over 2% for his last seven years.



    How so? We're using massive deficit increases to stimulate the economy and yet mostly just continuing the trend lines left by Obama.



    If you think I'm lying, cite something I said, and then provide the information showing it's a lie. A "lie" isn't merely a fact that makes you sad.



    I provided five links, in order to show Krugman's influence using different measures. That included a ranking of media mentions, yes, but also a ranking of citations, Klout score (measuring social media influence), and a survey of 2999 US economics professors.

    Look, I get it: you're embarrassed. Having obtained your view of the world through a strict conservative-media filter, you were under the false impression that Krugman had lost all credibility. And so you were deeply humiliated when confronted with such broad evidence of his enduring influence, both with the general public and with professional economists. But here's the thing to remember: your failure does not constitute a lie on my part. It's up to you to conform your views to the real world, not up to me to shelter you from the parts of the real world that reveal your ignorance.



    How could you imagine that titling his blog that way suggests his economics aren't mainstream?



    Yes, we've been over your misunderstanding of federal accounting a few times now. Let me know if you really need a refresher or whether you're just trolling.



    You're using quarterly growth there. Go back to the Fred site, modify the frequency to annual, and then calculate again. You'll see that the increase was from 16716164 to 17096179, which is about 2.27%. That's consistent with the usual way annual GDP growth rates are calculated. For example, see the Bureau of Economic Analysis site:

    https://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xlsx

    As you can see, they list 2017's GDP growth as 2.3% (2.27% rounded to the nearest tenth of a percentage point). You'll also see that is the number widely quoted in the financial and mainstream press:

    Trump didn't get his 3%-plus economic growth for 2017, after all
    GDP growth below expectations in fourth quarter of 2017 | TheHill
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/b...p-economy.html

    So, before accusing someone else of being "totally dishonest," wouldn't it be a good idea for you to check whether maybe you're just doing a calculation in a non-standard way?
    https://www.investors.com/politics/c...ed-gdp-growth/

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    You are thankful for a pack of lies?
    You lap up trumpís lies every day. Get back when you can start to distinguish between a lie and the truth.

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