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Thread: It Is Looking More And More Like 1929, Folks

  1. #51
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Things could spiral out of control in a trade war. Our tariffs against China go into effect at 12:01 AM Washington DC time tonight. China has vowed immediate retaliation. And Mr. Trump has said if China does that, he will impose tariffs on $200 billion more worth of Chinese products. And China has vowed retaliation for THAT. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve said yesterday that Mr. Trump's trade policies are already having a detrimental impact on American investment. I.e., his trade policies are hurting his own supposedly 'pro-growth' agenda. Well, DUH! Yes, this could affect the stock market first, and then the impacts could reverberate through the REAL economy with a time lag. I suggested as much earlier in the thread, when I noted that the stock market is SUPPOSED to function as a forecaster of the economy----but that the inside 'joke' in economics is that the stock market has predicted nine of the last five recessions. Example: the stock market crashed in 1987, but that was followed by no recession. An 'inciting incident' for a truly major downturn could be a bankruptcy or two of truly iconic American industrial firms, that would shock the nation and undermine confidence in a serious way.
    Trump's approach is stupidly over the top.

    Sadly.

    I still think tariffs could have a beneficial effect, but not in the ham-handed manner he is using them.

    What a waste.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Yes, I have granted that a majority of Democrats favored repeal. Now, will YOU admit that a STRONG Majority of those AGAINST repeal were, in FACT, Democrats? Will you ADMIT that?

    51 Democrats voted AGAINST repeal.

    As compared to ONLY 5 Republicans.


    That's more than a 10-to-1 margin, by the way.
    And is a meaningless factoid.

  3. #53
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    And is a meaningless factoid.
    Why on EARTH is it 'meaningless', Libertine?!?!??? Do explain yourself.

  4. #54
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    BTW, Republic Steel has reopened here and is hiring again. Not proof tariffs work, obviously.

    But proof they are not entirely destructive, maybe.

  5. #55
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    BTW, Republic Steel has reopened here and is hiring again. Not proof tariffs work, obviously.

    But proof they are not entirely destructive, maybe.
    We have 80 jobs in the steel-USING industries for every job we have in the steel-PRODUCING industry, Madeline. We are going to lose more jobs than we gain. That happens to be exactly what happened back in 2002 when George W. Bush imposed steel tariffs. He quietly dropped them about 17 months later when it became obvious that the results were counter-productive. Why not learn the lessons of history?
    Thanks from NightSwimmer

  6. #56
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    We have 80 jobs in the steel-USING industries for every job we have in the steel-PRODUCING industry, Madeline. We are going to lose more jobs than we gain. That happens to be exactly what happened back in 2002 when George W. Bush imposed steel tariffs. He quietly dropped them about 17 months later when it became obvious that the results were counter-productive. Why not learn the lessons of history?
    Why? Why will steel using jobs fall off if steel is produced at greater rates in the U.S.?

    Because it is more expensive?

    Surely that depends on many factors.

  7. #57
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Why? Why will steel using jobs fall off if steel is produced at greater rates in the U.S.?

    Because it is more expensive?

    Surely that depends on many factors.

    Yes. Because the increased cost of steel is already threatening to put some companies out of business. You don't think that US steel producers will actually sell at a lower price than the foreign producers' price plus tariffs, do you?
    Thanks from BigLeRoy

  8. #58
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Why? Why will steel using jobs fall off if steel is produced at greater rates in the U.S.?

    Because it is more expensive?

    Surely that depends on many factors.
    What a tariff does, is to create a WEDGE between the domestic price of steel and the world price of steel. The domestic price of steel will be higher. That is precisely what our domestic steel producers WANT, of course; they want to be PROTECTED from the cheaper foreign competition. Unfortunately, that makes steel (and aluminum, by the way) more expensive for our companies that use steel as a RAW MATERIAL! As NightSwimmer points out, that is already threatening to put some American companies out of business. There have been threads on this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Why on EARTH is it 'meaningless', Libertine?!?!??? Do explain yourself.
    I only one Dem had voted against it, you could declare that the opposition was 100% dem, but it really wouldn't mean anything since the vast majority of dems helped push it through.

  10. #60
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    I only one Dem had voted against it, you could declare that the opposition was 100% dem, but it really wouldn't mean anything since the vast majority of dems helped push it through.
    I can't even parse the first half of your sentence. You should rephrase it, so that it makes sense. It seems we AGREE that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was a BAD idea, yes? That it would have been better NOT to repeal it, yes?

    Well, then. Opposition to repealing it came PRIMARILY from ONE political party. And that political party happened to be the Democratic Party. As I said earlier, we----and by we, I mean the ENTIRE COUNTRY----should have listened to the eerily prescient warnings of Democratic North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan, who opposed the repeal of Glass-Steagall more fiercely than anyone.

    Do you agree with THAT?
    Thanks from Friday13

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