Members banned from this thread: Pragmatist and orangecat


Page 1 of 30 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 294
Thanks Tree131Thanks

Thread: Meet the Press Tariff Report Very Questionable

  1. #1
    New Member rwb72's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    445
    Thanks
    60

    From
    Florida

    Meet the Press Tariff Report Very Questionable

    This morning Meet the Press host Chuck Todd went to some great lengths to disparage President Trump's tariff plans. As is characteristic of Meet the Press (aka meet the Trump Bashers) a presentation, complete with pictures and numbers, gave a dismal view of the tariff situation with respect to consumer prices, after the setting of the tariffs.

    But was Todd's presentation accurate ? I say no it wasn't, or at least it was highly questionable, and feeble at best. It showed pictures of a wide variety of consumer products from automobiles to flashlight batteries, with increases of prices on all of them, allegedly to result from the tariffs. All of the graphics shown were colorful and clear regarding the products and the alleged price increases. What was very unclear, in fine/feint print at the bottom was "National Retail Foundation", the source of the "information".

    Problem here could be that the NRF is hardly an objective source for providing all this. A better source (with no dog in the fight, no axe to grind) might be the City University of New York economics department (or any school economics dept).I only mention CUNY because I was employed by them as an economics teacher for 3 years.

    So let's look at it from the academic perspective. Many times, in my microeconomics classes, I was called upon to discuss the subject of price increases in "the firm". And many times, I had to go against the wave of typical, public (somewhat brainwashed) public opinion, which falsely warns of dreadful price increases.

    Here's the side of the argument that the NRF and Meet the Press aren't telling you. In general, the firm (autos, batteries, TV sets, whatever) CANNOT raise the prices above their already set prices, regardless of what the situation. No matter if its minimum wage increase, tariffs, technology, etc, the MARKET PRICE (current price of items) is about as untouchable as anything in life.

    This is because of what creates that market price, and that price tag you see on the shirt or shovel in WalMart or wherever. What creates it is SALES$$. A price is a number. And it doesn't come from somebody's lucky number, or somebody's birthday. It is essentially, the highest price the firm can charge for the item, without triggering SALES REDUCTIONS, of a magnitude that would cause LOSSES in business income.

    This can be graphically shown as a bell-shaped curve, with prices increasing on the X axis, and business income increasing on the Y axis.

    ball shaped curve.jpg

    So as you raise your price, your income increases, UNTIL you reach a certain point where any further increases causes sales to drop (enough to cause lo$$es) This top turning point is the MARKET PRICE, which you sell your product at.

    So if the companies selling the products Chuck Todd showed on his show were to up the prices (ex $5800 more on imported cars), their sales would drop like a lead ball, which is why there is very little chance these price increases (scare talk ?), would ever happen.

    Sometimes, firms DO raise prices in response to some added cost. And guess what happens to them. Often they find themselves going out of business. It doesn't take a college degree in economics to own a business. It just take money, primarily.

    So for all those posters continually demanding of sources, in this case, I AM the source, and they can take it or leave it, but I think if a reasonably intelligent person examines this bell-shaped curve of prices vs business income, they cannot dispute its truth. And it's one which has been taught in economics classes all over the world, for thousands of years.
    Last edited by rwb72; 8th July 2018 at 07:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    34,692
    Thanks
    30127

    From
    Colorado
    There is so much economic illiteracy packed into your post that it would amuse anyone who has ever actually taught economics. But let's just focus on your very last sentence:

    And it's one which has been taught in economics classes all over the world, for thousands of years.

    Thousands of years, huh? That is very interesting, considering that economics has only been taught for a few HUNDRED years, at MOST. Adam Smith, who published his very influential The Wealth of Nations in the very eventful year 1776, is often considered the first true economist. While I think that is not quite correct, as there were certainly some interesting economic thinkers before Adam Smith, he was certainly the first Professor of Political Economy.


    Yes, tariffs are going to cause price increases. They ALWAYS do.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    68,017
    Thanks
    4434

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    There is so much economic illiteracy packed into your post that it would amuse anyone who has ever actually taught economics. But let's just focus on your very last sentence:

    And it's one which has been taught in economics classes all over the world, for thousands of years.

    Thousands of years, huh? That is very interesting, considering that economics has only been taught for a few HUNDRED years, at MOST. Adam Smith, who published his very influential The Wealth of Nations in the very eventful year 1776, is often considered the first true economist. While I think that is not quite correct, as there were certainly some interesting economic thinkers before Adam Smith, he was certainly the first Professor of Political Economy.


    Yes, tariffs are going to cause price increases. They ALWAYS do.
    The actual increase to consumers will be false. This is more hate Trump fake hysteria

    Consumers will see minimal price effects from tariffs ? and probably not until next year
    Thanks from rwb72 and orangecat

  4. #4
    New Member rwb72's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    445
    Thanks
    60

    From
    Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    There is so much economic illiteracy packed into your post that it would amuse anyone who has ever actually taught economics. But let's just focus on your very last sentence:

    And it's one which has been taught in economics classes all over the world, for thousands of years.

    Thousands of years, huh? That is very interesting, considering that economics has only been taught for a few HUNDRED years, at MOST. Adam Smith, who published his very influential The Wealth of Nations in the very eventful year 1776, is often considered the first true economist. While I think that is not quite correct, as there were certainly some interesting economic thinkers before Adam Smith, he was certainly the first Professor of Political Economy.

    Yes, tariffs are going to cause price increases. They ALWAYS do.
    So your specialty is being dumb, is that it ? Economics has been taught for as long as ECONOMICS HAS EXISTED. That goes back to the old kingdom of the Egyptians, and the Babylonians in Tigris Euphrates (current day Iraq)

    Like I said "if a reasonably intelligent person examines this bell-shaped curve of prices vs business income, they cannot dispute its truth." I made no such declarations for the dum dums who can't comprehend.
    Thanks from orangecat

  5. #5
    New Member rwb72's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    445
    Thanks
    60

    From
    Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The actual increase to consumers will be false. This is more hate Trump fake hysteria

    Consumers will see minimal price effects from tariffs ? and probably not until next year
    What else from Meet the Press ? Reliable in its Trump bashing.

  6. #6
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    34,692
    Thanks
    30127

    From
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by rwb72 View Post
    So your specialty is being dumb, is that it ? Economics has been taught for as long as ECONOMICS HAS EXISTED. That goes back to the old kingdom of the Egyptians, and the Babylonians in Tigris Euphrates (current day Iraq)

    Like I said "if a reasonably intelligent person examines this bell-shaped curve of prices vs business income, they cannot dispute its truth." I made no such declarations for the dum dums who can't comprehend.
    No. As I explained, economics as a scientific discipline has only been taught for at most a few hundred years, and then only in a few select Western countries. It has only been taught in Japan since about 1870, after the Meiji Restoration, and in much of the Third World, only arrived in the 20th century. I just retired from a 30-year career teaching college level economics. There is no bell-shaped curve of prices vs business income found in economics textbooks. I suspect you may be confusing a parabolic total revenue curve that is associated with a linear downward-sloping demand curve. But we assume most firms are trying to maximize total PROFITS, not total revenues. That's just ONE thing wrong with your OP.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01, BDBoop and Panzareta

  7. #7
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    68,017
    Thanks
    4434

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    No. As I explained, economics as a scientific discipline has only been taught for at most a few hundred years, and then only in a few select Western countries. It has only been taught in Japan since about 1870, after the Meiji Restoration, and in much of the Third World, only arrived in the 20th century. I just retired from a 30-year career teaching college level economics. There is no bell-shaped curve of prices vs business income found in economics textbooks. I suspect you may be confusing a parabolic total revenue curve that is associated with a linear downward-sloping demand curve. But we assume most firms are trying to maximize total PROFITS, not total revenues. That's just ONE thing wrong with your OP.
    The hysteria from democrats is false

  8. #8
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    34,692
    Thanks
    30127

    From
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The hysteria from democrats is false
    Since WHEN is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce a bunch of Democrats? Since, like, NEVER:

    https://www.uschamber.com/tariffs
    Thanks from Dittohead not!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    10,218
    Thanks
    8217

    From
    In my mind
    Personal anecdotes are not sources. The internet is loaded with claims of PhD's and former special forces.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01

  10. #10
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    12,707
    Thanks
    6816

    From
    The formerly great golden state
    Quote Originally Posted by rwb72 View Post
    This morning Meet the Press host Chuck Todd went to some great lengths to disparage President Trump's tariff plans. As is characteristic of Meet the Press (aka meet the Trump Bashers) a presentation, complete with pictures and numbers, gave a dismal view of the tariff situation with respect to consumer prices, after the setting of the tariffs.

    But was Todd's presentation accurate ? I say no it wasn't, or at least it was highly questionable, and feeble at best. It showed pictures of a wide variety of consumer products from automobiles to flashlight batteries, with increases of prices on all of them, allegedly to result from the tariffs. All of the graphics shown were colorful and clear regarding the products and the alleged price increases. What was very unclear, in fine/feint print at the bottom was "National Retail Foundation", the source of the "information".

    Problem here could be that the NRF is hardly an objective source for providing all this. A better source (with no dog in the fight, no axe to grind) might be the City University of New York economics department (or any school economics dept).I only mention CUNY because I was employed by them as an economics teacher for 3 years.

    So let's look at it from the academic perspective. Many times, in my microeconomics classes, I was called upon to discuss the subject of price increases in "the firm". And many times, I had to go against the wave of typical, public (somewhat brainwashed) public opinion, which falsely warns of dreadful price increases.

    Here's the side of the argument that the NRF and Meet the Press aren't telling you. In general, the firm (autos, batteries, TV sets, whatever) CANNOT raise the prices above their already set prices, regardless of what the situation. No matter if its minimum wage increase, tariffs, technology, etc, the MARKET PRICE (current price of items) is about as untouchable as anything in life.

    This is because of what creates that market price, and that price tag you see on the shirt or shovel in WalMart or wherever. What creates it is SALES$$. A price is a number. And it doesn't come from somebody's lucky number, or somebody's birthday. It is essentially, the highest price the firm can charge for the item, without triggering SALES REDUCTIONS, of a magnitude that would cause LOSSES in business income.

    This can be graphically shown as a bell-shaped curve, with prices increasing on the X axis, and business income increasing on the Y axis.

    ball shaped curve.jpg

    So as you raise your price, your income increases, UNTIL you reach a certain point where any further increases causes sales to drop (enough to cause lo$$es) This top turning point is the MARKET PRICE, which you sell your product at.

    So if the companies selling the products Chuck Todd showed on his show were to up the prices (ex $5800 more on imported cars), their sales would drop like a lead ball, which is why there is very little chance these price increases (scare talk ?), would ever happen.

    Sometimes, firms DO raise prices in response to some added cost. And guess what happens to them. Often they find themselves going out of business. It doesn't take a college degree in economics to own a business. It just take money, primarily.

    So for all those posters continually demanding of sources, in this case, I AM the source, and they can take it or leave it, but I think if a reasonably intelligent person examines this bell-shaped curve of prices vs business income, they cannot dispute its truth. And it's one which has been taught in economics classes all over the world, for thousands of years.
    Where did you copy this bit of nonsense from?


    Here's the side of the argument that the NRF and Meet the Press aren't telling you. In general, the firm (autos, batteries, TV sets, whatever) CANNOT raise the prices above their already set prices, regardless of what the situation. No matter if its minimum wage increase, tariffs, technology, etc, the MARKET PRICE (current price of items) is about as untouchable as anything in life.
    Prices are set by supply and demand. They are certainly not fixed, not in a capitalist economy. Whoever wrote this total BS does not understand economics.

Page 1 of 30 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 5th June 2017, 08:52 PM
  2. Meet The Press
    By Lilly in forum Current Events
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 23rd December 2014, 06:52 AM
  3. Meet the Press
    By Czernobog in forum Current Events
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 26th August 2012, 10:39 PM
  4. Biden on Meet the Press
    By justoneman in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 16th February 2010, 07:11 AM
  5. Meet the Press for Idiots
    By Luigi in forum Political Humor
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 8th March 2007, 08:19 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed