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Thread: Basic Income

  1. #31
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    You should go back an read that thread again. She validated that fact. The number of working age people in the US increased by more than the number of jobs created in the last ten year.

    The only responsible thing that we could do would be to slow population growth, do our part to slow WORLD population growth. It is the economically responsible thing to do from an economic perspective since we will need fewer workers. It is also environmentally the responsible thing to do. Population is the major driver of mankind's negative affect on the planet.



    We do need to fix our education system. No child left behind destroyed it. There is no shortage of skilled labor, just a shortage of employers willing to pay what those skills are worth. There is also a shortage of employers willing to train employees.

    The unemployment rate just went up after a healthy jobs report. It went up because 600,000 who had given up finding a good job in the Obamaconomy. We have plenty of workers.

    Increases in productivity reduces the need for human labor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    You should go back an read that thread again. She validated that fact. The number of working age people in the US increased by more than the number of jobs created in the last ten year.
    Arkady is a HE. And no, he EXPLODED your claim, with actual numbers. What was the thread again, I've lost track. Link us to it here, so we can all see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    The only responsible thing that we could do would be to slow population growth, do our part to slow WORLD population growth. It is the economically responsible thing to do from an economic perspective since we will need fewer workers. It is also environmentally the responsible thing to do. Population is the major driver of mankind's negative affect on the planet.
    AMERICA needs MORE workers, if we want to be able to finance Social Security and Medicare for the Baby Boom generation. Yes, WORLD population growth needs to slow. The major problem there is in the poorest countries in the world. To address that, we should be HELPING those countries to develop, economically, which tends to reduce the growth rate of the population. As people become more affluent, they VOLUNTARILY choose to have fewer children. As one economic development expert said, "Teaching calculus to young women is the most effective form of birth control ever devised." Donald Trump's policies go in the opposite direction----he calls those countries 'shithole countries' and has ZERO interest in helping them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    We do need to fix our education system. No child left behind destroyed it. There is no shortage of skilled labor, just a shortage of employers willing to pay what those skills are worth. There is also a shortage of employers willing to train employees.
    Agree on that last point, but the problems with our educational system LONG predate 'No Child Left Behind'. Our system started decaying in the early 1970's, which was when the math and science test scores started declining, and Americans shrugged. The seminal report A Nation At Risk was published in 1983, more than a third of a century ago, and Americans tut-tutted about it for a few weeks, and then their attention shifted to more pressing issues, like who Madonna was sleeping with at the time. There is a definite shortage of, for example, welders----we just haven't trained enough! Even if we were paying them $200,000 a year, there wouldn't be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    The unemployment rate just went up after a healthy jobs report. It went up because 600,000 who had given up finding a good job in the Obamaconomy. We have plenty of workers.
    We are now pulling in the DREGS of the labor force. Many employers are so desperate for workers that they are no longer conducting drug tests. Have you heard that? So people who were on the sidelines because of the opioid epidemic, or because they couldn't pass a marijuana test, are now out there looking for a job. Shrug. More high school dropouts are joining the labor force. You have plenty of LOW-QUALITY workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Increases in productivity reduces the need for human labor.
    Productivity is BARELY growing. BARELY. What was the last reading? I think it went up 0.4%, something like that.
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  2. #32
    Member fenrir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Something that Richard Nixon suggested.

    Could we have a sensible discussion on the Pros and Cons? How could it be set up?

    Several Countries are already doing this. Not like Welfare where people are ashamed or greedy to stay on it.

    What about one Health care for all? Insurance companies would share, but it would be equal. We have a lot of that for older people. why not all?
    If you wanted to be "sensible" you wouldn't "set it up."

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Something that Richard Nixon suggested.

    Could we have a sensible discussion on the Pros and Cons? How could it be set up?

    Several Countries are already doing this. Not like Welfare where people are ashamed or greedy to stay on it.

    What about one Health care for all? Insurance companies would share, but it would be equal. We have a lot of that for older people. why not all?
    It seems impossible to have a sensible discussion on anything around here any longer.
    Thanks from bonehead

  4. #34
    Under Protest excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Something that Richard Nixon suggested.

    Could we have a sensible discussion on the Pros and Cons? How could it be set up?

    Several Countries are already doing this. Not like Welfare where people are ashamed or greedy to stay on it.

    What about one Health care for all? Insurance companies would share, but it would be equal. We have a lot of that for older people. why not all?

    If coupled with doing away with all other welfare programs it would be a solid idea. It would also save money. President Trump should embrace the idea. Republicans would remain in power for 40-years.

    Socialized medicine on the other hand is a bad idea.

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    $500 a month isn't really an incentive to not work.
    Perhaps make the amount just enough that you won't starve or have to live in a cardboard box under the over-pass, but if you want a car of your own or other luxuries you'll have to work.

  6. #36
    Under Protest excalibur's Avatar
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    BTW The basic income must apply ONLY to the citizens, and the number of years to become a citizen should be increased from 5-years to 10-years.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    For people on minimum wage,$500 would mean a big difference. Would not stop them from working,encourage them.
    That actually depends. The limits are very narrow for qualifying for Medicaid. So that $500 might mean they no longer would qualify for Medicaid or other lower income assistance such as free school lunch and housing assistance. Other countries have single payer healthcare and dont have income requirements for healthcare. Here in the US its a huge deal. Going from $10 and hour to $14 might mean paying a lot more a month for a health plan or your child getting lunch assistance.
    Thanks from bonehead

  8. #38
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    My point is that a lot of people are underemployed because there simply aren't enough good paying jobs to go around. A basic wage could replace a lot of government programs and give a boost to the economy.
    But in times like now that doesnt apply. There actually is a shortage of workers and workers can demand more money currently. Companies are begging for help and paying more than they did previously.

  9. #39
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    But in times like now that doesnt apply. There actually is a shortage of workers and workers can demand more money currently. Companies are begging for help and paying more than they did previously.
    correct. this simply means the idea of supply and demand works in reality.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Arkady is a HE. And no, he EXPLODED your claim, with actual numbers. What was the thread again, I've lost track. Link us to it here, so we can all see.
    It was absolutely true for the decade ending with Obama leaving office.
    Jan 2007 we had 146 million jobs and 195 million working age population

    Jan 2017 we had 152 million jobs and 205 million working age.

    6 million more jobs for 10 million more people.

    Donald J Trump has changed that.

    June 2018
    We have 156 million jobs and 207 million working age population.

    3.5 million more jobs and 1.1 million more working age people.

    In the Trumpconomy, 3 jobs have been created for every 1 new working age person.


    For the entire period, 9.5 million new jobs and 11.7 million new working age people.

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S


    Data extracted on: July 10, 2018 (1:58:26 PM)

    Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

    Series Id: LNS12000000
    Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title: (Seas) Employment Level
    Labor force status: Employed
    Type of data: Number in thousands
    Age: 16 years and over


    Download:
    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2007 146028(1) 146057 146320 145586 145903 146063 145905 145682 146244 145946 146595 146273
    2008 146378(1) 146156 146086 146132 145908 145737 145532 145203 145076 144802 144100 143369
    2009 142152(1) 141640 140707 140656 140248 140009 139901 139492 138818 138432 138659 138013
    2010 138438(1) 138581 138751 139297 139241 139141 139179 139438 139396 139119 139044 139301
    2011 139250(1) 139394 139639 139586 139624 139384 139524 139942 140183 140368 140826 140902
    2012 141584(1) 141858 142036 141899 142206 142391 142292 142291 143044 143431 143333 143330
    2013 143292(1) 143362 143316 143635 143882 143999 144264 144326 144418 143537 144479 144778
    2014 145122(1) 145161 145673 145680 145825 146267 146401 146522 146752 147411 147391 147597
    2015 148113(1) 148100 148175 148505 148788 148806 148830 149136 148810 149254 149486 150135
    2016 150576(1) 151005 151229 150978 151048 151164 151484 151687 151815 151939 152126 152233
    2017 152076(1) 152511 153064 153161 152892 153250 153511 153471 154324 153846 153917 154021
    2018 154430(1) 155215 155178 155181 155474 155576
    Last edited by Libertine; 10th July 2018 at 11:00 AM.

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