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Thread: Basic Income

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Medicare for all was looked at in California and Vermont, un-affordable both place. At the national level we would need $2 trillion in new federal taxes to pay for it.
    I dont think it was found to be un affordable in california, nor do I think its a dead issue. It was the lack of a plan to pay for it that got in the way.

    If a single payer, universal health system cost $2 trillion in new taxes, it would be a bargain. In 2018 health care spending isestimated to come in at $3.5 trillion.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Yes and Vermont struggled with that because they didnt have enough workers that would be paying in. With automation coming, do we tax robots?
    Not a bad idea.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    I dont think it was found to be un affordable in california, nor do I think its a dead issue. It was the lack of a plan to pay for it that got in the way.

    If a single payer, universal health system cost $2 trillion in new taxes, it would be a bargain. In 2018 health care spending isestimated to come in at $3.5 trillion.
    True but a lot of people pay nothing for their healthcare as its all paid for by their company. If that burden shifted to them they would have a cow.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I think this is assumption (that "we need the young to support the old") has been carried forward continuously from 50-100 years ago when old, sick seniors were poor.



    In the coming 10-20 years, we are going to need 1) rich old people to support themselves (by consuming some of their amassed wealth, if needed) and 2) we're going to need rich old people to help support poor old people, as well as poor young people.

    This "support" can be thought of as pretty indirect though, especially in the context of a basic income, because the federal government does not need to tax dollar-for-dollar from someone in order to pay the basic income. This gets pretty deep into modern monetary theory, under which the assumption is that taxation becomes a function of suppressing inflation and preventing excess consumption of resources.



    It's only a problem because we insist on protecting programs that were designed to help old people under the assumption that old people are generally poor, even though old people aren't poor anymore, by and large. When you don't adjust your priorities and strategies after the problems they were intended to solve drastically change, yeah that's a problem.
    Part of the reason old people arent generally poor any more, are those very programs. Take away affordable health insurance (medicare isnt free) and social security, and see what happens.

  5. #55
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Part of the reason old people arent generally poor any more, are those very programs. Take away affordable health insurance (medicare isnt free) and social security, and see what happens.
    To be fair they also made a lot of money in real estate. An average home in the 1960s has exploded to today. Even middle income seniors who bought a $20K home in 1970 can today sell that home for 500K. Its doubtful anyone younger today will ever achieve that. In fact another housing bust and home prices could sink to massive lows and they could lose everything.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    True but a lot of people pay nothing for their healthcare as its all paid for by their company. If that burden shifted to them they would have a cow.
    Or the employer could just change the entity it pays for its employees health insurance.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Medicare for all was looked at in California and Vermont, un-affordable both place. At the national level we would need $2 trillion in new federal taxes to pay for it.

    Bernie Sanders admitted years ago that socialized medicine was unaffordable.

  8. #58
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Or the employer could just change the entity it pays for its employees health insurance.
    You are funny. Never going to happen. Most small companies that got rid of healthcare plans never gave employees any more money. Even if they did it would be peanuts or they would say their taxes are too high and take it out on employees.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    To be fair they also made a lot of money in real estate. An average home in the 1960s has exploded to today. Even middle income seniors who bought a $20K home in 1970 can today sell that home for 500K. Its doubtful anyone younger today will ever achieve that. In fact another housing bust and home prices could sink to massive lows and they could lose everything.
    And seniors are paying property taxes on those inflated values.

    It also makes it possible for them to pass something on to their kids.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    Bernie Sanders admitted years ago that socialized medicine was unaffordable.
    In the off chance youre interested in doing some reading on the subject.

    Search PNHP | Physicians for a National Health Program

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