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Thread: 75 Economic Numbers From 2012 That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

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    King Obama is a traitor! michaelr's Avatar
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    75 Economic Numbers From 2012 That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

    75 Economic Numbers From 2012 That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

    I am going to post a few of these. Four years of QE and zero rates has driven America into a steep decline.


    #1 In December 2008, 31.6 million Americans were on food stamps. Today, a new all-time record of 47.7 million Americans are on food stamps. That number has increased by more than 50 percent over the past four years, and yet the mainstream media still has the gall to insist that "things are getting better".
    That's directly on Obama's shoulders.

    #2 Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, about one out of every 6.5 Americans is on food stamps.
    Unfucking believable.

    #5 For the first time ever, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless. That number has risen by 57 percent since the 2006-2007 school year.
    Yup, but keeping the banks happy.

    #6 Median household income in the U.S. has fallen for four consecutive years. Overall, it has declined by over $4000 during that time span.
    The new norm.

    #9 In September 2009, during the depths of the last economic crisis, 58.7 percent of all working age Americans were employed. In November 2012, 58.7 percent of all working age Americans were employed. It is more then 3 years later, and we are in the exact same place.
    Gee, what happened to all those new jobs.

    #20 Right now, approximately 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be "low income" or are living in poverty.
    Take away their welfare and food stamps and the number would frighten us all.


    More fun to be had in the article.

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    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Americans on food stamps, lower household incomes, numbers of Americans in poverty, of course all of those figures are related.

    and there are several causes:
    ending of manufacturing jobs where unskilled workers could make a living wage,
    the current recession,
    the increasing numbers of single parent households,

    Ranting about how many people are on food stamps is not addressing the root cause. Should the food stamp program be cut back? Should the income qualification be lower?

    or should we be more concerned about increasing family income, discouraging people from becoming single parents, encouraging education and personal responsibility?

    This is not a simple problem with any simplistic solution that will work.

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    King Obama is a traitor! michaelr's Avatar
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    Hunger and homelessness rise dramatically in the U.S.: study

    Why is it that we hear of how good things are right up until the point where the gov wants more money?

    Unemployment was nonetheless the leading cause of hunger, followed by poverty, low wages and high housing costs.
    Duh. Here is a problem that ain't likely to go away anytime soon.

    I think we should increase the QE funds, according to some "economist" on the board, it works....hahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    75 Economic Numbers From 2012 That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

    I am going to post a few of these. Four years of QE and zero rates has driven America into a steep decline.




    That's directly on Obama's shoulders.



    Unfucking believable.



    Yup, but keeping the banks happy.



    The new norm.



    Gee, what happened to all those new jobs.



    Take away their welfare and food stamps and the number would frighten us all.


    More fun to be had in the article.
    Food stamps are the result of the Bush/GOP housing bubble becoming a financial crisis from policies designed to make supply side/Austrian School followers happy.

    The additional homeless kids are from the same problem, and exacerbated by the unwillingness of congressional conservatives to see good paying jobs and economic freedom flourish. But instead they conservatives and market evangelists are busy hurting collective bargaining rights and killing jobs.

    Getting the employment back up to those levels, in spite of obstruction from conservatives because jobs are being created in spite if your guys is pretty impressive.

    So, at the end of the days it's your guys who drove the economy off the cliff and you're griping about your guys?

    Heh.

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    Senior Member septimine's Avatar
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    No food stamps are the direct result of our wages being too high to justify a factory. When you can choose between hiring 1 American who will only work for 8 hours and bitch about overwork or 20 Chinese who will work for 12 hours and not complain, you go with the Chinese. That's not even counting the regulations and the required benefits that literally make it impossible to create a job in this country if it can possibly be offshored to a place that actually wants those jobs. We want the paychecks, not the work.

    How would "bargining rights" help? The factories are fleeing because it costs too damn much to do anything in America. Let's add strong unions to raise the wages even higher so we can justify getting rid of even the low paying jobs either to machines (hi self-scanning cash register) or ship the rest of the work to China, India and Pakistan. Because everybody knows that the key to prosperity is to make more jobs leave while having ever more people competing for the dream job of sweeping the floor of a warehouse where we store the stuff we just imported from China, before machines load that onto a truck to be shipped to a store where millions of other Americans are fighting for the coveted position of "self stocker". Bargining rights just makes all of that happen faster, as businesses have to offshore in order to compete.

    We didn't do anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    No food stamps are the direct result of our wages being too high to justify a factory. When you can choose between hiring 1 American who will only work for 8 hours and bitch about overwork or 20 Chinese who will work for 12 hours and not complain, you go with the Chinese. That's not even counting the regulations and the required benefits that literally make it impossible to create a job in this country if it can possibly be offshored to a place that actually wants those jobs. We want the paychecks, not the work.
    Here's the question none of the conservatives ever have the balls to answer: Countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany and others have higher regulations and higher wages, higher unionization and are not experiencing the same sort of outsourcing the US is. Why is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    How would "bargining rights" help?
    Higher wages for the majority of people brings more demand into the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    The factories are fleeing because it costs too damn much to do anything in America.
    Largely either false, or can be corrected by monetary policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    Let's add strong unions to raise the wages even higher so we can justify getting rid of even the low paying jobs either to machines (hi self-scanning cash register) or ship the rest of the work to China, India and Pakistan.
    That's not what wpould happen, particularly if currency manipulation by those countries was addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    Because everybody knows that the key to prosperity is to make more jobs leave while having ever more people competing for the dream job of sweeping the floor of a warehouse where we store the stuff we just imported from China, before machines load that onto a truck to be shipped to a store where millions of other Americans are fighting for the coveted position of "self stocker".
    That seems to be the conservative goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    Bargining rights just makes all of that happen faster, as businesses have to offshore in order to compete.
    Again, only true if currency manipulation isn't addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimine View Post
    We didn't do anything.
    I have and will, if it means making the US more competitive. Some people, like conservatives, just give up on this country.
    Last edited by Shanty; 22nd December 2012 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
    Here's the question none of the conservatives ever have the balls to answer: Countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany and others have higher regulations and higher wages, higher unionization and are not experiencing the same sort of outsourcing the US is. Why is that?
    Because its false, all of those countries have lower per capita GDPs, the exception is Norway and of course that's because they're sitting on an enormous amount of oil on a per capita basis without which their numbers would look just like Sweden's or Finland's. Its very simple, Shanty, the social market economy produces economies that, on average yield 1/3 less per capita income.

    And in particular for countries like the ones SPECIFICALLY mentioned, talk about outsourcing. Outsourcing is ANY outsourcing. ALL of those economies, Canada and Germany and IN PARTICULAR rely on foreign trade MORE SO than the United States.

    Outsourcing has taken on a pejorative tone in the sense that it means a company will outsource production to another country. Our economy is built on specialization, GM doesn't produce paper does it? Well, that's outsourcing. You go to work, you trade your labor in exchange for the multitude of products you have no hand in producing, that too is, in a broader sense, OUTSOURCING.

    Look at those countries, look at their GDP, and then look at their imports.

    Country GDP (Trillions) Exports (Trillions) Imports (Trillions) Total Trade as % of GDP Exports as % of GDP Imports as % of GDP
    USA 15.09 1.497 2.314 25.255% 9.920% 15.335%
    Germany 3.57 1.547 1.339 80.840% 43.333% 37.507%
    Canada 1.74 0.4631 0.4696 53.603% 26.615% 26.989%
    Sweden 0.53813 0.1891 0.1491 62.847% 35.140% 27.707%
    Norway 0.4858 0.1638 0.07402 48.954% 33.718% 15.237%

    All of them actually OUTSOURCE MORE than the US. That's the definition of what importing is.
    Last edited by NewPublius; 22nd December 2012 at 06:32 PM.

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    So, saying that, while the New Deal and Great Society programs were incredibly successful at reducing poverty rates, the US in recent years has seen it go to near the bottom of OECD nations in high poverty rates.
    Howard Steven Friedman: 5 Countries With the Highest Poverty Rate (OECD)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
    So, saying that, while the New Deal and Great Society programs were incredibly successful at reducing poverty rates, the US in recent years has seen it go to near the bottom of OECD nations in high poverty rates.
    Howard Steven Friedman: 5 Countries With the Highest Poverty Rate (OECD)
    And just as a little FYI, the OECD measures poverty based as a percent of that member country's median income. Of course a person with an income of $1,000 is farther from the median in the United States than in Germany or the UK and based on "40% of median income, or 50% of median income, or 60% of median income" [the UK happens to choose 60% of median income as its measure]. So since the UK's median income is lower, 60% of median income ensnares people in the United States into poverty who, by definition, aren't poor in the UK.

    And as usual you got caught, AGAIN, making shit up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
    Countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany and others have higher regulations and higher wages, higher unionization and are not experiencing the same sort of outsourcing the US is.
    Unless imports don't count as 'outsourcing' in your paradigm
    Last edited by NewPublius; 23rd December 2012 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewPublius View Post
    And just as a little FYI, the OECD measures poverty based as a percent of that member country's median income. Of course a person with an income of $1,000 is farther from the median in the United States than in Germany or the UK and based on "40% of median income, or 50% of median income, or 60% of median income" [the UK happens to choose 60% of median income as its measure]. So since the UK's median income is lower, 60% of median income ensnares people in the United States into poverty who, by definition, aren't poor in the UK.

    And as usual you got caught, AGAIN, making shit up:



    Unless imports don't count as 'outsourcing' in your paradigm
    Wow dude. I guess reality pissed in your fucking Cheerios.

    Germany, Canada and other nations also have lower costing social services, like cheaper, more effective health care systems that make up for the differences in income. Not to mention the countries I listed have generally been using exports to create jobs in their economies.

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