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Thread: Broad support for charter schools

  1. #31
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    There may well be some charter schools which serve that function, but that was certainly not the intended goal of the charter school movement.
    Of course not. It has become the place for "others." For violent students or for gifted students or for students that excel in arts or science. Everyone but average kids. Not at all what it was intended for.

  2. #32
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    There may well be some charter schools which serve that function, but that was certainly not the intended goal of the charter school movement.
    I am not seeing anything other than a response to special needs kids, whether they are gifted and need a extra challenge, or they are such a problem they cannot exist in normal student populations. We did not have kids like this when we were growing up....something has happened in the family unit to warrant schools like this. Even tho corruption exists everywhere, including public school districts, a lot of the money used for these schools replaces property that these kids have zero respect for, security guards in every classroom to protect the teacher and other students, special training for the teachers to handle these problem kids, and in house counselors and on staff school nurses to administer their psych meds. . Most public schools do not need these extra services. I personally hate the thought of my taxes going towards kids of ghastly parenting, but what is the alternative...locking them up in Juvie or denying them a chance at a education. I can't imagine a parent choosing a charter school over a public unless they have too or forced too. My husband has literally heard 10 year olds tell the teacher to go fuck themselves....who taught them that? In 10 years that has never happened to me in public school as a teacher...and if it does...they are expelled. Charter schools need oversight, no dispute, but so does the home environments of these kids. If a kid cannot conduct themselves in public once school age, the buck stops in the home and something should be done about that...prison cannot be the future for these kids.

  3. #33
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I am not seeing anything other than a response to special needs kids, whether they are gifted and need a extra challenge, or they are such a problem they cannot exist in normal student populations.

    I am of the opinion that you are assuming much more than you actually know about charter schools based upon anecdotes and your inherent biases.

  4. #34
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I am of the opinion that you are assuming much more than you actually know about charter schools based upon anecdotes and your inherent biases.
    I have been a teacher for 10 years in a public high school...I think I have a little bit of experience here. And as far as biases....what would those be? The fact that I recognize problems that the left would rather not see because it interferes with their agenda that it is always someone else's fault than the person responsible. You would rather shut down avenues of help instead of looking at the root problem of the need for special schools for behavioral problems, why is that?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    Now imagine McDonalds being able to OWN schools..not only can they profit greatly just from that
    Actually, I really doubt this. There have been a number of attempts at for-profit schools over several decades--I even invested in one attempt back in the 1980s. There's no business plan that works, given public funding of schools. The previous idea was to save on costs, but it turns out there's no way to do enough cost savings to turn a profit on the same revenue that public schools get. Hire fewer janitors? Pay teachers less? Turn down the thermostat even further? None of these things work without providing inferior educational outcomes.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I am not seeing anything other than a response to special needs kids, whether they are gifted and need a extra challenge, or they are such a problem they cannot exist in normal student populations. We did not have kids like this when we were growing up....something has happened in the family unit to warrant schools like this. Even tho corruption exists everywhere, including public school districts, a lot of the money used for these schools replaces property that these kids have zero respect for, security guards in every classroom to protect the teacher and other students, special training for the teachers to handle these problem kids, and in house counselors and on staff school nurses to administer their psych meds. . Most public schools do not need these extra services. I personally hate the thought of my taxes going towards kids of ghastly parenting, but what is the alternative...locking them up in Juvie or denying them a chance at a education. I can't imagine a parent choosing a charter school over a public unless they have too or forced too. My husband has literally heard 10 year olds tell the teacher to go fuck themselves....who taught them that? In 10 years that has never happened to me in public school as a teacher...and if it does...they are expelled. Charter schools need oversight, no dispute, but so does the home environments of these kids. If a kid cannot conduct themselves in public once school age, the buck stops in the home and something should be done about that...prison cannot be the future for these kids.
    I would oppose your statement "These kids did not exist when we were growing up." Special needs kids have always existed. But we did different things with them. Locked them in the basement. Sent them to "homes" where they were mistreated until they died. Sent to "special schools" where people didn't have to deal with them and so years later they can imagine such children didn't exist.

    I agree that we've seen a coarsening of the culture, and the behavior you cite is partly a problem with parenting, but even THAT is a matter of changing cultural norms. It's also a class issue--I suspect you're objecting to the children of people whose place in society gives them no reason to instill respect for authority or a filter on language. I doubt you hear the children of doctors, lawyers, or engineers telling you to go fuck yourself.
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  7. #37
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I have been a teacher for 10 years in a public high school...I think I have a little bit of experience here. And as far as biases....what would those be? The fact that I recognize problems that the left would rather not see because it interferes with their agenda that it is always someone else's fault than the person responsible. You would rather shut down avenues of help instead of looking at the root problem of the need for special schools for behavioral problems, why is that?

    I'm not surprised that you responded with an unfounded, straw-man allegation against me. I knew that I was hitting a nerve when I said what I said, but I stand by my statement.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I'm not surprised that you responded with an unfounded, straw-man allegation against me. I knew that I was hitting a nerve when I said what I said, but I stand by my statement.
    What's most interesting to me is the suggestion that structural changes to schools can somehow solve problems that HCP admits are cultural problems associated with parenting.

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Kids are hooked on McDonalds way before school begins....lazy parents who do not or know how to cook. It is easier to swing through drive through than spend a 1/2 hour making dinner. Why point a finger at a large corporation, when they are not the ones who actually approve of what kids will eat or physically feed them. You tend to blame anyone or anything other than the ones who are in truly charge of their kids and what they eat. I have always thought a parent should be charged with neglect if they allow their children to become obese. It is a early death sentence.
    So its ok to allow corps to BRAND to kids?

    I blame us for allowing corps to MARKET to children, to do their branding with children as their target audience.

  10. #40
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I'm not surprised that you responded with an unfounded, straw-man allegation against me. I knew that I was hitting a nerve when I said what I said, but I stand by my statement.
    Good, you are entitled to your opinion like anyone else...you just always feel the need to apply your straw man thoughts to anyone you feel like being a ass too. You have a pattern of doing this to many on this board and have been called out for it. You must be bored today....because you are trying to pick your usual argument. You probably have not set foot in a school since your own kids are grown...but yet you know everything about schools.

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