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Thread: Clinton's charter school comments draw boos from teachers union

  1. #21
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARMCX1 View Post
    There are more than one type of charter school. The best have education squarely in their aim. These tend to be locally supported charters that don't have profit as the underlying purpose.

    There are also charters schools that corporatize education, are often multi-city or multi-state, have profit firmly entrenched as the reason they exist, and often fail. Ten years ago, about half of the charter schools were corporate. Five years later the number dropped to about one third -- leaving school systems scrambling to take up students of failed charters.

    I agree that the tradition model of education as we knew it is sometimes hostile to charter schools for the reason you identified but also because not all charter schools have quality education as their chief concern.
    True, but it would seem that there are VERY MANY public schools that don't exactly have "quality education as their chief concern", either.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Education absolutely SHOULD be one of the top issues in the general election, but I shall be VERY surprised if it is.

    When you poll Americans as to what the top problems in the country are, education usually comes in around 9th or 10th. That's because Americans have been very successfully dumbed down. We seem to no longer be capable of sensing just how dumb we have become, or EVEN WHY IT MATTERS.
    True although the dems are supposedly trying to get free public college on the platform. A large part of Sanders campaign revolved around free college and the student loan crisis. So I do think at least those issues in regards to education will come up.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    True, but it would seem that there are VERY MANY public schools that don't exactly have "quality education as their chief concern", either.
    I have noticed a huge difference over the past 20 or so years since my kids began and ended school. When they first started, we as parents, were pretty much informed how things worked and how each class was run. Given a syllabus and grading schedule and away we went. As time went on, I noticed teachers began asking "how do you want things done?" So of course, certain parents spoke up and dictated. They complained as to what books were read, what topics discovered and then complained about how "Johnny and Susie needed less homework so they could have play time, sports, job etc." Direction seemed to be lost. I got the feeling that a lot of teachers almost feared parents and their authority. Of course there are states like mine, where a parent can pull a kid out of a class at anytime for any reason without penalty. Topic too graphic, too realistic, hurts their feelings and such. So we have some students who learned all sorts of things while others couldn't hear about war, Holocaust or take upper level algebra because it would hurt their GPA.
    Thanks from BigLeRoy

  4. #24
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Teachers hate the thought of Charter Schools because they feel it is competition and with competition they need to step up their game.

    No we don't. Some schools are great and some are just awful. Why not make public schools compete with each other

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Well I am a teacher...and I just hate the lazy ones, the ones who do not care and the ones who are just there for personal gain...probably the ones that you love and support.
    . How do we know that you are one who cares?
    What personal gain do teachers get? You mean the big bucks we make? Sounds like you have an issue with teachers. I work with thousands of teachers every year and most of them do care otherwise they wouldn't be in teaching. Are they all good? No...but most care deeply about their kids
    Last edited by Isalexi; 6th July 2016 at 05:04 PM.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I have noticed a huge difference over the past 20 or so years since my kids began and ended school. When they first started, we as parents, were pretty much informed how things worked and how each class was run. Given a syllabus and grading schedule and away we went. As time went on, I noticed teachers began asking "how do you want things done?" So of course, certain parents spoke up and dictated. They complained as to what books were read, what topics discovered and then complained about how "Johnny and Susie needed less homework so they could have play time, sports, job etc." Direction seemed to be lost. I got the feeling that a lot of teachers almost feared parents and their authority. Of course there are states like mine, where a parent can pull a kid out of a class at anytime for any reason without penalty. Topic too graphic, too realistic, hurts their feelings and such. So we have some students who learned all sorts of things while others couldn't hear about war, Holocaust or take upper level algebra because it would hurt their GPA.
    And when I make speeches to teachers I tell him that the biggest change I have seen over my 30 years are the parents. When I began and we complained about a child the parent took care of that. Now when you complain about a child it's your fault. When Johnny can't read it it's the teachers fault but when Johnny is a great reader it's genetics

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    True, but it would seem that there are VERY MANY public schools that don't exactly have "quality education as their chief concern", either.
    Really? What is their chief concern? As I used to tell my students, "when you do well it makes me look good and when you do poorly it makes me look bad" that goes for schools

  8. #28
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    . How do we know that you are one who cares?
    What personal gain do teachers get? You mean the big bucks we make? Sounds like you have an issue with teachers. I work with thousands of teachers every year and most of them do care otherwise they wouldn't be in teaching. Are they all good? No...but most care deeply about their kids
    The teachers in my HS make pretty good money. We are paid according to our industry licensure and highest degree held. If it is a degree or credential they want...they pay top scale. I, of course can only speak from my district, but the teachers I am talking about are the ones who have not retired, but are drawing their first retirement and working on the next 20 years so they can have two retirements. We have counselors who are working on their third. These teachers do not actively teach...they assign lame work, such as reading the chapter for a hour instead of embracing the active and physical modes of teaching. They had a coniption when we put cameras in our classroom for security...they were exposed for what little they do. We also do peer review on each other, and I have seen this on a observation of several. Their behavior in our union meetings really show how much they care. We have to get subs for the last hour of class to do any type of a training in-service because they refuse to work past 3 o'clock. The new ones that are coming in, make us all look bad!! They are awesome, energetic, and fresh. I don't have a problem with all teachers, just the ones who are not effective anymore and are hanging on for a better retirement.

  9. #29
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    No we don't. Some schools are great and some are just awful. Why not make public schools compete with each other
    That is a wonderful idea....if you could compete regionally instead of by district. Some districts only have 1 high school and have recently consolidated, which has not made this any better. The class size of some of these schools is awful. 70 kids to a class.

  10. #30
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    Really? What is their chief concern? As I used to tell my students, "when you do well it makes me look good and when you do poorly it makes me look bad" that goes for schools
    Let me tell you a story about my nephew, who went to public school in a community that is notorious for the poor quality of its schools, which are so seriously under-funded that they have a VERY hard time attracting good teachers. It is a 'bedroom community', meaning a HUGE number of retirees, and they mostly don't give a shit about the quality of the schools, so they routinely vote down EVERY mill levy increase that would give more money to the schools.

    My nephew had an English teacher who assigned a six-page written paper. My nephew worked hard on his paper, and turned it in. The teacher simply 'riffed through' the pages, to verify that there WERE six pages, and gave my nephew an 'A'. SHE DIDN'T EVEN READ THE PAPER.

    My nephew was MAD. He WANTED some constructive feedback on his paper. Did I tell you that he worked very hard on it??

    My nephew told this story to me, as a college professor. I gave my nephew some advice that you probably won't approve of. I told him the next time his teacher asks for a six-page paper, to do this: Write the first page of the paper just as you normally would. And then, on every other page, simply fill the page with the sentence "All work and no play makes Jeff a dull boy" over and over and over and over and over again.

    Guess what happened? Same thing! Teacher 'riffs through' the pages, counts six pages, gives Jeff an 'A'.

    This time his parents get mad. They go to the principal. The principal, of course, defends the teacher. So they go to the school board. Any satisfaction? Nope! The school board basically says, "Oh, ALL the teachers do that! No big deal!!"

    It's no big deal that the teacher doesn't even READ the damned papers they assign?!?? WTF?

    At the same school, my nephew was PUNISHED by a math teacher with multiple detentions. Why? Because my nephew was copying down what she wrote on the blackboard. There had been no instruction not to do so. My nephew was TRYING TO LEARN, for crying out loud! And he was PUNISHED for it!! How CRAZY is that?!? I teach math myself, and I WANT students to be writing down whatever I do on the board. I cannot IMAGINE why you would NOT want students doing that.

    Out in California, they wanted to FIRE an utterly incompetent high school math teacher. This was a math teacher who could NOT compute 80% of 80. She said she would need a calculator to do that! Are you KIDDING me??? They can't fire her. The teachers' union protects her.

    UNACCEPTABLE!!
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