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Thread: Clinton's charter school comments draw boos from teachers union

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    The teachers in my HS make pretty good money. We are paid according to our industry licensure and highest degree held. If it is a degree or credential they want...they pay top scale. I, of course can only speak from my district, but the teachers I am talking about are the ones who have not retired, but are drawing their first retirement and working on the next 20 years so they can have two retirements. We have counselors who are working on their third. These teachers do not actively teach...they assign lame work, such as reading the chapter for a hour instead of embracing the active and physical modes of teaching. They had a coniption when we put cameras in our classroom for security...they were exposed for what little they do. We also do peer review on each other, and I have seen this on a observation of several. Their behavior in our union meetings really show how much they care. We have to get subs for the last hour of class to do any type of a training in-service because they refuse to work past 3 o'clock. The new ones that are coming in, make us all look bad!! They are awesome, energetic, and fresh. I don't have a problem with all teachers, just the ones who are not effective anymore and are hanging on for a better retirement.
    As I repeat all the time, you learn more about a person by the side of the argument she chooses. Yes there are people like you described in all professions. I focus on all the dynamic teachers. What is this great salary that you speak of and what kind of community is it? Teaching should be the highest paid professional because of the importance of our work

  2. #32
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    That is a wonderful idea....if you could compete regionally instead of by district. Some districts only have 1 high school and have recently consolidated, which has not made this any better. The class size of some of these schools is awful. 70 kids to a class.
    Where do they have 70 in a class? Or are you speaking of minor subjects?

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Let me tell you a story about my nephew, who went to public school in a community that is notorious for the poor quality of its schools, which are so seriously under-funded that they have a VERY hard time attracting good teachers. It is a 'bedroom community', meaning a HUGE number of retirees, and they mostly don't give a shit about the quality of the schools, so they routinely vote down EVERY mill levy increase that would give more money to the schools.

    My nephew had an English teacher who assigned a six-page written paper. My nephew worked hard on his paper, and turned it in. The teacher simply 'riffed through' the pages, to verify that there WERE six pages, and gave my nephew an 'A'. SHE DIDN'T EVEN READ THE PAPER.

    My nephew was MAD. He WANTED some constructive feedback on his paper. Did I tell you that he worked very hard on it??

    My nephew told this story to me, as a college professor. I gave my nephew some advice that you probably won't approve of. I told him the next time his teacher asks for a six-page paper, to do this: Write the first page of the paper just as you normally would. And then, on every other page, simply fill the page with the sentence "All work and no play makes Jeff a dull boy" over and over and over and over and over again.

    Guess what happened? Same thing! Teacher 'riffs through' the pages, counts six pages, gives Jeff an 'A'.

    This time his parents get mad. They go to the principal. The principal, of course, defends the teacher. So they go to the school board. Any satisfaction? Nope! The school board basically says, "Oh, ALL the teachers do that! No big deal!!"

    It's no big deal that the teacher doesn't even READ the damned papers they assign?!?? WTF?

    At the same school, my nephew was PUNISHED by a math teacher with multiple detentions. Why? Because my nephew was copying down what she wrote on the blackboard. There had been no instruction not to do so. My nephew was TRYING TO LEARN, for crying out loud! And he was PUNISHED for it!! How CRAZY is that?!? I teach math myself, and I WANT students to be writing down whatever I do on the board. I cannot IMAGINE why you would NOT want students doing that.

    Out in California, they wanted to FIRE an utterly incompetent high school math teacher. This was a math teacher who could NOT compute 80% of 80. She said she would need a calculator to do that! Are you KIDDING me??? They can't fire her. The teachers' union protects her.

    UNACCEPTABLE!!
    Can I tell you about the thousands of papers that I have read every single word of as have my colleagues? Once again I am hearing the story about someone who's kid was not treated right and then teaches arepainted with a broad brush. Teaching is one of those professions where parents believe they know more than the teachers. I taught in inner-city Brooklyn and could have gone anywhere I wanted but chose to stay there to make a difference. I believe I shared with you where 16 kids from my first class which is over 40 years ago Found me on Facebook and we met in NYC where they surprised me with a plaque. But then I probably can find parents who will blame me for their child not succeeding ...

  4. #34
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    Where do they have 70 in a class? Or are you speaking of minor subjects?

    The large class size is mainly in their home schools where they study the general education subjects. My friend is a remedial math teacher and she has 65 in her class after the consolidation. She has a teachers aid in the class with her as well. Our HS limits seats and the students apply in 10th grade. Our seats are limited to 25 per class...which is manageable. We shut down a lot of elementary schools in the inner city over the years, their class sizes are obscene.

    I agree...you do see the true intentions of a person by the side of the argument...you have made a few questionable statements yourself, considering you promote equality, diversity and tolerance.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Do you have to be 'certified' to be a 'real' teacher?

    You know, Albert Einstein used to tutor neighborhood kids in algebra. He warn't never no certified teacher!! They probly shouda ARRESTED him, or sumthin'!!
    Both public and charter schools wave teaching certificate requirements in favor of expertise and competency. I see ads for that all of the time.

    My daughter went to a Montessori school for part of her education. The teachers imposed amazing order in the classroom. The day started with al the kids kneeling on the blue line. Those that weren't ready went off to the side until they were ready.

    When I would visit, sometimes pandemonium broke out with the kids high fiving me and giving me their names as they ran by. I could tell the teachers didn't like it but I did.

    When she was in a public system, there were parent-teacher conferences. They went along OK until a question or opinion was expressed. They could have sent a letter or an email if that's what the point was.

  6. #36
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Do you have to be 'certified' to be a 'real' teacher?

    Of course not. Do you have to be jealous of those who are?

  7. #37
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Do you have to be 'certified' to be a 'real' teacher?

    You know, Albert Einstein used to tutor neighborhood kids in algebra. He warn't never no certified teacher!! They probly shouda ARRESTED him, or sumthin'!!
    You have to have licensure by the State to teach HS or below. You are licensed by the subject or grades that you teach. You have to be a real moron to not know that....or a flame baiter...take your pick. LOL

  8. #38
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    You have to have licensure by the State to teach HS or below. You are licensed by the subject or grades that you teach. You have to be a real moron to not know that....or a flame baiter...take your pick. LOL
    This is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. I currently teach at a charter school in Colorado. I am NOT licensed by the state. I do NOT have any 'certification' to be a teacher. I do NOT have an Education degree. What I DO have are graduate degrees in Economics and Mathematics, and an undergraduate degree in Anthropology, with a GPA VERY close to 4.0. I was a Professor of Economics at three different universities for a period of more than a dozen years, earning the highest levels of acclaim from my students, from my peers, and from my superiors. What did all of that 'get' me towards teacher 'certification'? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Nothing whatsoever. The state actually told me that if I wanted to be 'certified', I would HAVE to go back to school and get an Education degree. I was not ABOUT to waste two or more years of my life taking a bunch of Mickey Mouse Education courses. [I've seen the textbooks.]

    Now, a few years ago, the school asked me to teach a Geometry class to a very small class of precocious 6th-graders. Because they were elementary students, I DID have to go take a test the state gives, to see if people are 'qualified' to teach elementary students. I scored 99.8% on that test, which meant that I missed one question, apparently, and they would (of course) not tell me which question I missed; I was also told that my score was the highest score recorded, and they even sent me a silly little certificate to commemorate my 'achievement'. I am rather more proud of the signed certificate I have from Buzz Aldrin, in recognition of my contributions to STEM education in America.

    Many people seem to be blissfully unaware that if Albert Einstein were alive today, he would NOT be ALLOWED to teach either math OR physics in the vast majority of American high schools. Why? Because Albert was not a 'certified' teacher. Albert did not have an Education degree.

    Here's the POINT: our 'certification' procedures for 'licensing' teachers are utterly broken, utterly stupid, and should be JUNKED forthwith. Start all over, from scratch.
    Thanks from bajisima

  9. #39
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARMCX1 View Post
    Both public and charter schools wave teaching certificate requirements in favor of expertise and competency. I see ads for that all of the time.
    Charter schools do this VERY frequently, yes. That is one of the POINTS of charter schools. They don't have to obey all the silly rules and regulations imposed by the educrats who control local and state school boards. So most charter school teachers are non-unionized, and MANY of them are non-certified, and were hired for their subject-area expertise.

    Public schools do this very RARELY, in my experience.
    Thanks from bajisima

  10. #40
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Of course not. Do you have to be jealous of those who are?
    Substitute the word 'contemptuous' for 'jealous', and you would be much closer to how I feel. How I feel is this: I think Education degrees are almost worthless.

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