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Thread: Are virtual, online schools the future?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    The thread was about virtual online schools. Someone said the phrase "personalized learning". I said I opposed personalized learning because in elementary and high school, kids should be learning about the real world together - and overcoming their challenges with it together. Not sitting in a silo having the world artificially packaged for them.

    That could be curriculum or it could be environment. When these students want to interview for a job, date, compete for things, live with roommates, work etc they will have to do it in the real world. And the stakes then are for keeps.

    I'm not s fan of e-learning. As you can tell.



    Yes I went off topic. Blame the guy who asked me to elaborate.
    The problem with the argument you're making about "personalized learning" assumes that it's a concept in "e-learning." It's not. Every classroom teacher is encouraged to "individualize instruction," taking each student's learning styles and abilities into account. I agree that should happen in a social context like a classroom, but the idea isn't unique to digitally-mediated instruction.

  2. #42
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    The problem with the argument you're making about "personalized learning" assumes that it's a concept in "e-learning." It's not. Every classroom teacher is encouraged to "individualize instruction," taking each student's learning styles and abilities into account. I agree that should happen in a social context like a classroom, but the idea isn't unique to digitally-mediated instruction.
    I think he might also be referring to places where parents trump educators on learning. Like here in New England, a parent can at any time for any reason remove a student from the classroom if they don't want their kiddie learning something. It happens all the time. One of my kids teacher did a piece on the Holocaust and half the kids were removed by their parents because it was "violent and disturbing." It also happens in lots of other classes. IMO parents have way way too much say on education nowadays.

    https://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/...rriculum/?_r=0

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think he might also be referring to places where parents trump educators on learning. Like here in New England, a parent can at any time for any reason remove a student from the classroom if they don't want their kiddie learning something. It happens all the time. One of my kids teacher did a piece on the Holocaust and half the kids were removed by their parents because it was "violent and disturbing." It also happens in lots of other classes. IMO parents have way way too much say on education nowadays.

    https://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/...rriculum/?_r=0
    I have to disagree with this. Public schools are a aspect of the state. I shudder to think that happens when the state can take kids away from their parents for many hours each day and do with them whatever it ants. Parents SHOULD have the ultimate authority over what their kids are exposed to. Parents can be misguided, but then so can the state. If parents don't want their children learning essential stuff (like evolution or the role of Caesar Chavez in American history), they'll eventually suffer for it--they won't qualify for further learning, like college.

    Often--not always, but often--stories like the one you relate have to do with the way the material is presented. Teachers can head off a lot of headaches by sending notes home explaining what they are doing and why they are doing it. I've been a childless teacher who was often irritated by the inconvenience of parent input--and later in life I became a parent.

    Kids belong to their families, not to the state.
    Last edited by Rasselas; 14th June 2017 at 06:24 AM.
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  4. #44
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I have to disagree with this. Public schools are a aspect of the state. I shudder to think that happens when the state can take kids away from their parents for many hours each day and do with them whatever it ants. Parents SHOULD have the ultimate authority over what their kids are exposed to. Parents can be misguided, but then so can the state.
    I agree in theory but in real situations I don't know. We are "hippie liberal" in New England and thus have parents that don't vaccinate, don't want their kids learning about war, violence etc. Other places down south they don't want to learn science. Others not sex education. We cant have certain standards for one thing and not all. That poses a problem. A public school guided by the state has to have a curriculum for learning. If I am a pacifist and don't want my kids learning how the US sends troops all over the world and starts wars, constantly removing my kids will pose a problem. These days parents are upset at the silliest things, hence the term "helicopter parents."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think he might also be referring to places where parents trump educators on learning. Like here in New England, a parent can at any time for any reason remove a student from the classroom if they don't want their kiddie learning something. It happens all the time. One of my kids teacher did a piece on the Holocaust and half the kids were removed by their parents because it was "violent and disturbing." It also happens in lots of other classes. IMO parents have way way too much say on education nowadays.

    https://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/...rriculum/?_r=0
    I've read Eherenrich's book (from your link), BTW, and while I'm supportive of her project and many of her conclusions, it's undoubtedly a polemical book. It begins with a particular political perspective and Eherenrich employees that political lens to examine her experiences in pretty obvious ways. What she chooses to say and not say is shaped by her lefty pre-conceptions and preferences. If I were a conservative parent, I'd have questions too.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I agree in theory but in real situations I don't know. We are "hippie liberal" in New England and thus have parents that don't vaccinate, don't want their kids learning about war, violence etc. Other places down south they don't want to learn science. Others not sex education. We cant have certain standards for one thing and not all. That poses a problem. A public school guided by the state has to have a curriculum for learning. If I am a pacifist and don't want my kids learning how the US sends troops all over the world and starts wars, constantly removing my kids will pose a problem. These days parents are upset at the silliest things, hence the term "helicopter parents."
    Again, I agree with your view of the problem, but the solution can't be the state telling parents, "Buzz off--we're teaching your kids whatever we deem appropriate." Kids who opt out of certain kinds of learning--what happens to their grades? Do they get an alternate assignment that teaches the same knowledge and skills? If they don't, what's the consequence of not learning it? I can see a school saying "your kid is your kid, but our curriculum is our curriculum--opt out of you want, but your child gets a 'zero' for what they miss." Helicopter parents want their kids to succeed mostly--they won't stand for that too much.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Again, I agree with your view of the problem, but the solution can't be the state telling parents, "Buzz off--we're teaching your kids whatever we deem appropriate." Kids who opt out of certain kinds of learning--what happens to their grades? Do they get an alternate assignment that teaches the same knowledge and skills? If they don't, what's the consequence of not learning it? I can see a school saying "your kid is your kid, but our curriculum is our curriculum--opt out of you want, but your child gets a 'zero' for what they miss." Helicopter parents want their kids to succeed mostly--they won't stand for that too much.

    I really don't know. My kids are out of school now but when they were there they had traditional grading A, B, C etc. Now they use a 12 point system based on other issues like attempt, try, fail, succeed etc. So a kid can get a 5 but its not failing but not as good as a 12. They offers "optional" programs if a student opts out of a part of the curriculum. Just like they traditionally did in health class for parents that didn't want their kids learning sex education. They were able to substitute nutrition or some other health subject for grading. To me its lunacy because colleges have to learn and understand that. It complicates the issue.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I really don't know. My kids are out of school now but when they were there they had traditional grading A, B, C etc. Now they use a 12 point system based on other issues like attempt, try, fail, succeed etc. So a kid can get a 5 but its not failing but not as good as a 12. They offers "optional" programs if a student opts out of a part of the curriculum. Just like they traditionally did in health class for parents that didn't want their kids learning sex education. They were able to substitute nutrition or some other health subject for grading. To me its lunacy because colleges have to learn and understand that. It complicates the issue.
    I'm not familiar with that grading system--I'm not sure it matters what shape a grading system takes. In my own discipline, kids can learn literacy skills reading all kids of texts, so another can be substituted for one a parent doesn't like. Strangely, though (at least at middle school or above) kids don't usually want to be different from the other kids. Send them to the library with a different book for a few days and teachers often discover that the kids themselves object and make their parents let them back into class doing the regular class work.

    Sex is always a touchy subject. I agree that it belongs in school, but even more strongly I think families are the basis of everything in a child's life--not school.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think he might also be referring to places where parents trump educators on learning. Like here in New England, a parent can at any time for any reason remove a student from the classroom if they don't want their kiddie learning something. It happens all the time. One of my kids teacher did a piece on the Holocaust and half the kids were removed by their parents because it was "violent and disturbing." It also happens in lots of other classes. IMO parents have way way too much say on education nowadays.

    https://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/...rriculum/?_r=0
    In my sex education class parents had the option to take the children out. In all my years of teaching it, I only had one parent and it was because I refused to say that homosexuality was a sin, ...I remember sending home a notice to parents that they should come see me for the curriculum before passing any judgment. This is a problem, people here who have criticized sex ed but yet never once asked about the curriculum

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I agree in theory but in real situations I don't know. We are "hippie liberal" in New England and thus have parents that don't vaccinate, don't want their kids learning about war, violence etc. Other places down south they don't want to learn science. Others not sex education. We cant have certain standards for one thing and not all. That poses a problem. A public school guided by the state has to have a curriculum for learning. If I am a pacifist and don't want my kids learning how the US sends troops all over the world and starts wars, constantly removing my kids will pose a problem. These days parents are upset at the silliest things, hence the term "helicopter parents."
    In my book I mentioned that the biggest changes I have seen in all my years of teaching are the parents. When I begin teaching and complained about a child , the parent assured me that it will be taken care of. Today the tendency seems to be more blaming the teacher. ...then I would give strategies for dealing with them

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