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Thread: A's on the rise but SAT scores fall

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Eve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Which leads to an interesting question. We often hear companies in the US say they need to bring in talented visa workers from overseas because no one here in the US is qualified. Do you think that means they know US students aren't as good as their overseas peers?
    In a word let me narrow it down to "effort". The US student expects to be handed an A for just trying. An international student knows he has to work for it and trying means squat. Achievement is the only thing rewarded. What do you think happens in the working world when these two head into the work force?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    I taught middle school and I would give tons of small quizzes throughout the term. I would let them remove two bottom grades. It gave me a very clear picture of their work. I let them remove the bottom two grades because we all know sometimes we are just off. But if there are 15 A's and one F I know the F is not valid
    I do the same thing. I like a lot of grades to average. I give a quiz and exam for every chapter we cover and usually an assignment goes with it. I drop the two lowest grades. When I earned by BBA from a State University (80's) the Prof's had "do or die" with only a midterm and final to average together. Pure laziness on the Professors part. In college, the syllabus offers a lot of academic freedom, you just have to meet the objectives but you can deliver the content and create your own tests, quizzes and assignments. If I cover an entire text book during a semester, you can imagine the amount of grades I have to work with. I can assign the weights given to each category. If you cover 16 chapters within 15 weeks, you have about 50 grades to average. A lot of work on my part, but at least the students have a fair chance.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    In a word let me narrow it down to "effort". The US student expects to be handed an A for just trying. An international student knows he has to work for it and trying means squat. Achievement is the only thing rewarded. What do you think happens in the working world when these two head into the work force?
    Are you a teacher or college instructor? Just curious.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I take attendance too, but the policy is totally up to me. I don't know that Pell requires 90% attendance, and I'm certain that there is no way for them to check. That would involve requiring instructors to report the individual attendance rates of students. I'm not even sure that's legal--it might be a violation of HERA.
    Students who choose college are expected to attend class...regardless of the platform used. PELL is tax payer funded and the expectations of the tax payer is a return on investment. I am not seeing how it would be illegal to expect a student to physically attend class. PELL disburses funds at certain times of the school year. In order to request those funds, you send documentation regarding the student's grade point average and attendance. In my case, I am either given a laptop to use for the term or a PC is provided for me in the class room. I have attendance software and take roll at the beginning of every class meet. That information is provided for financial aid and the registar. It is not unreasonable for the lender to require attendance for a class the taxpayer is paying for. To me, attendance is commitment to their program and class. I would never pass a student who only showed up for tests and to turn in work. I would feel like a unethical scumbag. LOL

  5. #45
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Students who choose college are expected to attend class...regardless of the platform used. PELL is tax payer funded and the expectations of the tax payer is a return on investment. I am not seeing how it would be illegal to expect a student to physically attend class. PELL disburses funds at certain times of the school year. In order to request those funds, you send documentation regarding the student's grade point average and attendance. In my case, I am either given a laptop to use for the term or a PC is provided for me in the class room. I have attendance software and take roll at the beginning of every class meet. That information is provided for financial aid and the registar. It is not unreasonable for the lender to require attendance for a class the taxpayer is paying for. To me, attendance is commitment to their program and class. I would never pass a student who only showed up for tests and to turn in work. I would feel like a unethical scumbag. LOL
    My 3 kids went to 3 different universities and all had attendance taken regularly. They were told it was for financial aid and such.
    Thanks from HCProf

  6. #46
    Veteran Member Eve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Are you a teacher or college instructor? Just curious.
    No, just an observant person having dealt with young people in the working world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Students who choose college are expected to attend class...regardless of the platform used. PELL is tax payer funded and the expectations of the tax payer is a return on investment. I am not seeing how it would be illegal to expect a student to physically attend class.
    You could certainly require it. The question is how you'd be able to tell. What mechanism would you use to determine if they attended? Would you compel instructors to take attendance and report that attendance to the financial aid office? I'm not sure that's even legal, since that's a part of academic performance and sharing that information with anyone may be a breach of HERA.

    PELL disburses funds at certain times of the school year. In order to request those funds, you send documentation regarding the student's grade point average and attendance. In my case, I am either given a laptop to use for the term or a PC is provided for me in the class room. I have attendance software and take roll at the beginning of every class meet. That information is provided for financial aid and the registar.
    That's interesting. Perhaps students at your institution sign some sort of waiver. I know this is not common as I've been teaching in higher education for 25 years, at three different institutions, and I've never seen such a thing.

    It is not unreasonable for the lender to require attendance for a class the taxpayer is paying for. To me, attendance is commitment to their program and class. I would never pass a student who only showed up for tests and to turn in work. I would feel like a unethical scumbag. LOL
    I agree. I have rules much like yours. It's not hard to take attendance--I generate a roll sheet everyone has to sign everyday. And someone missing more than a week's worth of classes gets penalized, usually by 1/3 to 1/2 of a grade per absence.

  8. #48
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    I can tell if they are present by seeing them in their seats and chatting with them when I call roll. I have been teaching since 1999 and I have always been required to take and report attendance at the college level. As far as FERPA or HERA, you can disclose information to the lenders, you just can't share academic progress with parents, employers or anyone that is not directly tied to funding. You earn PELL funding on each student involved in the program...you have to send documentation to support that. The only information that is shared is:

    Student: Rassellas 98% attendance and 4.0 GPA. A college is expected to be honest about this information, if they are not, heads will roll. So, you never submit your spread sheet to anyone in administration? Not even the first 15 days? This would create a environment where colleges are receiving Pell disbursements for students who have dropped your class.

    I teach all over the country, online and on the ground. I have about 4 colleges I rotate through in Cleveland, and 9 colleges I contract with online and they all pay attention to attendance. It must be a Cali thing or something.
    Thanks from bajisima

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    No, just an observant person having dealt with young people in the working world.
    You are making broad brushed statements regarding students...I am elbow deep with them and have been for the last 17 years. You have a handful who are entitled like you described, but Prof's squash that from the beginning. Most of them want to succeed and work very hard for their grades.

  10. #50
    Veteran Member Eve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    You are making broad brushed statements regarding students...I am elbow deep with them and have been for the last 17 years. You have a handful who are entitled like you described, but Prof's squash that from the beginning. Most of them want to succeed and work very hard for their grades.
    Perhaps, maybe my sample was tainted with overly indulged young people.

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