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Thread: A's on the rise but SAT scores fall

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I can tell if they are present by seeing them in their seats and chatting with them when I call roll. I have been teaching since 1999 and I have always been required to take and report attendance at the college level. As far as FERPA or HERA, you can disclose information to the lenders, you just can't share academic progress with parents, employers or anyone that is not directly tied to funding. You earn PELL funding on each student involved in the program...you have to send documentation to support that. The only information that is shared is:

    Student: Rassellas 98% attendance and 4.0 GPA. A college is expected to be honest about this information, if they are not, heads will roll. So, you never submit your spread sheet to anyone in administration? Not even the first 15 days? This would create a environment where colleges are receiving Pell disbursements for students who have dropped your class.

    I teach all over the country, online and on the ground. I have about 4 colleges I rotate through in Cleveland, and 9 colleges I contract with online and they all pay attention to attendance. It must be a Cali thing or something.
    Perhaps it's BECAUSE you teach all over the country and are doing on line stuff that this matters a bit more. I've never been asked to report the attendance of students to administration, and I've also taught in two other states. But I teach only in-person courses. PELL is a federal program, so the rules would be the same all over the country.
    Last edited by Rasselas; 21st July 2017 at 04:06 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    The good news on America's report cards: More high school teachers are handing out A's. But the bad news is that students aren't necessarily learning more.

    Recent findings show that the proportion of high school seniors graduating with an A average — that includes an A-minus or A-plus — has grown sharply over the past generation, even as average SAT scores have fallen.

    In 1998, it was 38.9%. By last year, it had grown to 47%. That’s right: Nearly half of America’s Class of 2016 are A students. Meanwhile, their average SAT score fell from 1,026 to 1,002 on a 1,600-point scale — suggesting that those A's on report cards might be fool's gold.

    A recent study by the Harvard Graduate School of Education found that just 56% of college students complete a four-year degree within six years of entering college. For students who start at two-year colleges, it's even worse: Just 29% earn a degree within three years. Examining the academic transcripts of high school graduates in the 18-year period from 1998 to 2016, they found that the average grade point average (GPA) rose from 3.27 to 3.38, even as the average SAT score dropped.

    previous research has tied high school GPA to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, a widely respected standardized test administered by the federal government. But the new research is the first to draw such a direct line between GPA and SAT scores.

    Recent research suggests that the problem isn’t just showing up in high school. In colleges nationwide, the most popular grade is now an A, according to Stuart Rojstaczer, a former Duke University scholar and founder of the website GradeInflation.com. According to Rojstaczer, close to 50% of all college grades given are A’s, a far cry from even two decades ago, when the average GPA at a four-year college was 3.11.


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...age/485787001/
    I think we're missing something here. Not that I think for second that many kids make legitimate A's. But I thought I read something not too long ago about a restructing of the SATS. Wasn't there something about weighting the essay a little more? Something rings a bell.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Perhaps it's BECAUSE you teach all over the country and are doing on line stuff that this matters a bit more. I've never been asked to report the attendance of students to administration, and I've also taught in two other states. But I teach only in-person courses. PELL is a federal program, so the rules would be the same all over the country.
    I also teach locally in Ohio, and I have always recorded attendance. I just don't understand how you can received funds without proving the student is attending your college. I have two community colleges, 1 university and 1 for profit, we all report attendance. Do you report grades to the lender? Otherwise, the federal PELL program would have no clue of if the student is in class or even the college and just keep sending checks? The DOE is more regulated than that, they don't throw money at a college just based on financial aid enrollment.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I also teach locally in Ohio, and I have always recorded attendance. I just don't understand how you can received funds without proving the student is attending your college. I have two community colleges, 1 university and 1 for profit, we all report attendance. Do you report grades to the lender? Otherwise, the federal PELL program would have no clue of if the student is in class or even the college and just keep sending checks? The DOE is more regulated than that, they don't throw money at a college just based on financial aid enrollment.
    So...just to be clear...you've always had some central clearinghouse to which you report attendance?

    To answer your question, students who don't go to class don't pass.

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    I've never paid that much attention to the financial aid side of things, but when I look at the basic eligibility requirements for federal aid, attendance isn't one of the criteria: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/eligibility/basic-criteria

    Students have to be enrolled at least half time and make satisfactory progress toward degree. Where do you see the stuff about attendance?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I've never paid that much attention to the financial aid side of things, but when I look at the basic eligibility requirements for federal aid, attendance isn't one of the criteria: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/eligibility/basic-criteria

    Students have to be enrolled at least half time and make satisfactory progress toward degree. Where do you see the stuff about attendance?
    Everyone is eligible, but you have to maintain your eligibility. You don't get the funding all at once...you apply for it throughout the year, like everyone 3 months. Trust me, I am no expert on FA either. I have just sat through MANY faculty meetings were all of the departments give updates, and this is what FA tells us. I have about 3-4 faculty/team meetings a month for different places...online webinars and campus meetings. (that part sucks for choosing to diversify) Attendance is drilled in our heads. Does your College talk about retention or attrition? That is the second drill hole they put in our brains. Both go hand in hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    So...just to be clear...you've always had some central clearinghouse to which you report attendance?

    To answer your question, students who don't go to class don't pass.
    I wouldn't call it a clearinghouse, the attendance is reported by each instructor internally which compiles the statistics to report out to the Feds. It looks like your administration is reporting grades as proof to the DOE and their disbursement must be different. Do you work for a private college non-profit college? This could be the difference in policy. IDK

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Everyone is eligible, but you have to maintain your eligibility. You don't get the funding all at once...you apply for it throughout the year, like everyone 3 months. Trust me, I am no expert on FA either. I have just sat through MANY faculty meetings were all of the departments give updates, and this is what FA tells us. I have about 3-4 faculty/team meetings a month for different places...online webinars and campus meetings. (that part sucks for choosing to diversify) Attendance is drilled in our heads. Does your College talk about retention or attrition? That is the second drill hole they put in our brains. Both go hand in hand.
    Not sure where you are getting this information from.

    But its false.

    I never had to apply for financial aid every three months.

    It was once a year.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Everyone is eligible, but you have to maintain your eligibility. You don't get the funding all at once...you apply for it throughout the year, like everyone 3 months. Trust me, I am no expert on FA either. I have just sat through MANY faculty meetings were all of the departments give updates, and this is what FA tells us. I have about 3-4 faculty/team meetings a month for different places...online webinars and campus meetings. (that part sucks for choosing to diversify) Attendance is drilled in our heads. Does your College talk about retention or attrition? That is the second drill hole they put in our brains. Both go hand in hand.
    I don't know what to tell you. The link I cited lists the eligibility criteria that students must maintain--the on-going criteria, so far as I can tell. It doesn't mention attendance--just progress to degree. I've only ever taught at 4-year state institutions. Our rules are really strict in the design of courses--they have to fill the time allotted (usually 15 "Carnegie hours" x 3) and require homework for double that amount of time. We have to HAVE an attendance policy, but no one tells us what it should be, and there's never been any central authority to whom we had to report the attendance of individual students.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Not sure where you are getting this information from.

    But its false.

    I never had to apply for financial aid every three months.

    It was once a year.
    I didn't say the student applies for FASFA every three months. They apply once a year, but the college requests and receives funds during that year periodically. I thought you were part of administration at a college.

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