Thread: Private vs public schools

Lucky to live in a very highly ranked school system. My kids were behind when we moved them from a private school. Neither one bothered with the SAT's either and went straight into the honors programs at our local CC's - then on to a four year.

Big benefit of living in CA - our CC's and 4 year - for the most part - work hand in hand with with each other. And it saves parents a boatload of money.

Another thing to consider is how important to do you think for your child that having the experience of all kinds of different social interactions in a public school. I think for my son it really helped him.

Originally Posted by Tennyson

What Americans believe about private vs public schools is irrelevant. How public vs private schools actually perform,

Since private schools get to choose their students, it's not really a reasonable comparison.

Several recent large-scale studies have compared private schools to charter and regular public schools using the one common test taken by selected samples of students around the country.

That test is the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), otherwise known as the Nation’s Report Card. Administered by the U.S. Department of Education, the NAEP is given to students in grades 4, 8 and 12 in both private and public schools.

One of these studies, conducted by Christopher and Sarah Theule Lubienski, a husband-and-wife team at the University of Illinois, compared more than 340,000 students using math scores from the 2003 NAEP. The study found that after adjusting for socioeconomic factors, there is little difference between private and public school scores. According to the researchers, “Demographic differences between students in public and private schools more than account for the relatively high raw scores of private schools. Indeed, after controlling for these differences, the presumably advantageous ‘private school effect’ disappears, and even reverses in most cases.”

https://www.greatschools.org/gk/arti...l-test-scores/

Also should be noted that Private Schools in general, don't release their test scores.

Originally Posted by Æthelfrith

I certainly can appreciate why folk use private education. However, it is certainly problematic for the economy. Essentially you get middle class 'low intellect' kids outperforming, in terms of labour market outcome, working class 'high intellect' kids. Intensifying inequality of opportunity, we guarantee destruction of ability

I think it comes down to culture. Although I am a member of my community, and I do things to help support it, I feel far more responsibility to my children than to the community... so if it were proven that the community would be 6% better if my kids were 3% worse, I would still always side with my own kids.

Originally Posted by Rasselas

What you're describing is the beginning of a death spiral for public schools.

As for Dartmouth, it and all the other Ivies have enough endowment that they could operate without charging tuition at all. They could simply admit the brightest and most capable students in the country without regard to ability to pay. They don't and wouldn't consider the possibility. Why? Because they trade on prestige and you can't have prestige if you let the riffraff in...even if they are smart riffraff.

But why is the perception today different than even a decade ago? As I have said, people willingly sent their kids to public schools, very few even considered private schools. Now they are booming. Which to me is strange since the kids todays parents are much younger, why are they so sour on public education? The ones I know are "helicopter types", in their 30s watching their child like a hawk. Child had a Leap Frog tablet when they were toddlers. Just seems so different nowadays. Almost reminiscent of Japanese parents where there is shame if their child isn't top of the class and doing great. I checked earlier and the two closest charter schools to me have waiting lists over 500 long. That's enormous. Neither even existed a decade ago.

Originally Posted by Chief

I think it comes down to culture. Although I am a member of my community, and I do things to help support it, I feel far more responsibility to my children than to the community... so if it were proven that the community would be 6% better if my kids were 3% worse, I would still always side with my own kids.

'Social capital' is an interesting one. Informs us how severe the unlevel playing field is (e.g. go to private school and pick up a friends base which provides further opportunities for your kids). Irrelevant to me mind you. As a socialist, kids are going to the local school no matter what. The terrors of principles!

Originally Posted by bajisima

But why is the perception today different than even a decade ago? As I have said, people willingly sent their kids to public schools, very few even considered private schools. Now they are booming. Which to me is strange since the kids todays parents are much younger, why are they so sour on public education? The ones I know are "helicopter types", in their 30s watching their child like a hawk. Child had a Leap Frog tablet when they were toddlers. Just seems so different nowadays. Almost reminiscent of Japanese parents where there is shame if their child isn't top of the class and doing great. I checked earlier and the two closest charter schools to me have waiting lists over 500 long. That's enormous. Neither even existed a decade ago.

Yeah I've known some helicopter parents. Some of their kids got burned out mid way through high school with their studies.

By the time mine where in HS I was hands off as far as homework/grades/test were concerned. Kids have to want to want to achieve on their own - not for their parents.

Plenty of poor ignorant people send their kids to school essentially because it's daycare. They aren't shy about letting them know that they think school is bullshit and a waste of time, and their kids perform accordingly, until they drop out. Plenty of schools only graduate-- that's just graduating, not with anything special at all --40% of their kids. Some are worse. Detroit is <25%.

What happens to the rest? You know what happens? They're dead weight, sucking resources away from those 40% who actually give a shit enough to persevere, bleeding the system dry with zero intention of putting in any work and no understanding of how it can pay off. Public schools are crippled by poverty and ignorance. If students think it's a waste of time there isn't much you can do.

And who can blame them? Where there is poverty there is ignorance, there are drugs. Violence at home and on the streets, get rich or die trying. Alcoholism. Hunger. You wake up to that as an 8-year-old and how the hell are you going to give a shit about math? Or learning to write? Or, as you age, things that are even more esoteric, the rewards even harder to understand?

It's a chicken-and-egg problem. But for what we spend on bullshit, on corporate tax breaks and amnesties, on a military that could already kick half the world's collective ass, people shouldn't be going hungry. Nobody should even be worrying a little bit about food, for themselves or for their children. Or housing. Or having their streets be a war zone.

Imagine if everybody got healthcare, food, and shelter. You'd meet people from France and they'd hide their heads in shame, or tell you about their uncle who lives in Illinois, try to glom onto some of that glory. Nobody would be able to argue with shit. World's most dominant military, take zero shit, and EVERYBODY is fucking eating and staying warm and dry. How you doin?

I would love talking that kind of shit.

Originally Posted by HayJenn

Big benefit of living in CA - our CC's and 4 year - for the most part - work hand in hand with with each other. And it saves parents a boatload of money.

We try. The legislature has just laid down a huge marker for the CSU--4-year graduation rates at 37% by 2525. That is, they want 37% of students to complete their degrees in eight semesters.

As a comparison, that figure is about 20% nationally. My campus is right now at 12%.

We've never even measured graduation rates at the four-year mark before. We've always measured it at six years.

It's cheaper to move more quickly, but some students find taking a full-time load prohibitively difficult due to work and other obligations.

Originally Posted by HayJenn

Several recent large-scale studies have compared private schools to charter and regular public schools using the one common test taken by selected samples of students around the country.

That test is the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), otherwise known as the Nation’s Report Card. Administered by the U.S. Department of Education, the NAEP is given to students in grades 4, 8 and 12 in both private and public schools.

One of these studies, conducted by Christopher and Sarah Theule Lubienski, a husband-and-wife team at the University of Illinois, compared more than 340,000 students using math scores from the 2003 NAEP. The study found that after adjusting for socioeconomic factors, there is little difference between private and public school scores. According to the researchers, “Demographic differences between students in public and private schools more than account for the relatively high raw scores of private schools. Indeed, after controlling for these differences, the presumably advantageous ‘private school effect’ disappears, and even reverses in most cases.”

https://www.greatschools.org/gk/arti...l-test-scores/

Also should be noted that Private Schools in general, don't release their test scores.

Nor are they even required to subject their students to standardized testing. The DeVos DoE would deliberately avoid requiring these new charters and other schools from being directly compared to public schools. And they wouldn't be subject to the same requirements for special education or classroom diversity.