Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 132
Thanks Tree32Thanks

Thread: A University faces a crisis of confidence amongst the working class

  1. #21
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    46,886
    Thanks
    31197

    From
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    You're right. I tend to avoid reading crap from whiny, white supremacist websites.
    I checked it out... mindingthecampus.org is run by the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. According to mediabiasfactcheck.com, the MIPR has a right/center bias - well distant of the extreme. I'd never heard of the site before, but it's a valid source per my own exacting standards.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    15,448
    Thanks
    4149

    From
    Boise, ID
    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    I checked it out... mindingthecampus.org is run by the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. According to mediabiasfactcheck.com, the MIPR has a right/center bias - well distant of the extreme. I'd never heard of the site before, but it's a valid source per my own exacting standards.
    Well that's because you're reasonably thoughtful and critical thinking. Rabid partisan ideologues don't tolerate that sort of thing.
    Thanks from Djinn

  3. #23
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    47,090
    Thanks
    29088

    From
    New Hampshire
    All I can say is that for the most part in my real life, the ones going to college are the better off kids, private school kids and charter school kids. Our local high school had the lowest percent going off to college since the 1970s. Its terribly expensive to go and a lot of kids parents don't have their student loans paid off yet. Our neighbors son is a senior in high school and his parents are struggling with their loans still and they are 40. He doesn't think the struggle is worth it.

  4. #24
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    15,469
    Thanks
    13046

    From
    Here
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Fascinating piece. Experiencing similar opinions regarding public universities here as well.

    Americans are increasingly losing faith in higher education. Republicans see universities as out of touch, pushing a liberal agenda on their students. Democrats see them as too expensive. Increasingly, the working class sees higher education as not worth the cost — despite the fact that a growing share of jobs require a postsecondary degree.

    Today’s University of Michigan includes more than its share of blue bloods and people with inherited wealth. Like many other flagship state universities that were founded to provide a leg up for the common man, Michigan has become a school largely for students with means. A full 10 percent of its student body comes from families in the top 1 percent of earners, according to data from the Equality of Opportunity Project. Just 16 percent come from families in the bottom 60 percent of earners combined. The median income of parents of students at the university is $156,000, roughly three times the median income of Michigan families.

    There’s a sense that working-class students don’t belong there.

    Indeed, many flagship state universities like Michigan have, despite their public missions, come to operate more like elite private universities, closer in spirit to the Ivy League than the desire for equal opportunity that helped create them. It’s a trend that’s brought increased selectivity but also a crisis of affordability and deep alienation from lower-income communities in the states they’re supposed to serve. Since the late 1990s, nearly two-thirds of public universities increased the share of students in the top 20 percent and reduced the share from the bottom 40 percent.

    “We are shutting the doors of higher education — of public higher education — to low-income students,” said Stephen Burd, who led the New America analysis. “That’s incredibly distressing considering public higher education is supposed to be the cheaper option that common people — real people — could go to. Now you see these public colleges are acting just like the private colleges. It’s kind of scary in terms of what this means for opportunity in this country.”

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-income-244420
    The dilemma and conundrum?

    One political leaning is pushing the idea of "liberal" education and identifying anything "liberal" as being wrong. When people begin identifying things in a political definition sense, rather than a non-political definition sense, then something more than opinion, is afoot.

    It is especially interesting when one looks at who has been promoting such ideas.




    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/e...g_america.html




    For-profit colleges and universities.........easy to do from home, promise the world and take advantage of federal student loan program, they get paid, aren't responsible for delivering on their promises.
    https://www.google.com/search?source....0.tkXm3-EFsAo


    "There's a sucker born every minute"
    Regardless of who actually said it.....someone known or anonymous.....I think it is safe to say that the world demonstrates its truth, daily.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%...n_every_minute

    It also becomes more evident, daily, how well those who wish to exploit the ignorant, for their political power purposes, do so.


    It seems in some circles, it just will not do, to teach children and young adults just how LIBERAL the concept of the founding of the United States was and how liberal (freedom) minded the founders of this nation were, within limitations.

    For instance, they chose an Electoral College system instead of a straight popular plurality vote into place as a means of electing the nation's executive and vice executive. For those that cry "too much government", true freedom would have meant a pure democracy, not a representative one or one with an Electoral College.

    What has been taught on MANY, MANY VERY OLD colleges and universities in America has been characterized as "liberal arts". There was a time when NO ONE, may have even considered the "liberal" in the description had ANYTHING to do with a politicized term. Now it seems some have or have had need to "translate" that (for their own political purposes) into the idea that traditional college education has something to do with "liberal" in a political sense, not in the non-political sense. Perhaps those doing so need more and higher education themselves or they have it, but are using a politicized "translation" and characterization, to exploit the uneducated to keep more of them that way. After all, it is easier to misinform the uneducated than those interested in being well informed and educated.

    It also rather HARD to educate people for less or with public dollars, when one political party in particular is working to privatize just about everything. Then remove regulation that would prevent private businesses from being held accountable for ripping off the general public. Trump University and the "for-profit" colleges, just a few examples.

    For the uneducated (because some people WANT them to REMAIN uneducated) the "conservatives" in the age of the founding of this nation were NOT on the side of independence from England.

    A Tory (/tɔːri/) holds a political philosophy (Toryism) based on a British version of traditionalism and conservatism, which upholds the supremacy of social order as it has evolved throughout history. The Tory ethos has been summed up with the phrase "God, King, and Country".[1] Tories generally advocate monarchism, are usually of a high church Anglican religious heritage[2][3] and are opposed to the liberalism of the Whig faction.

    "The term Tory or "Loyalist" was used in the American Revolution for those who remained loyal to the British Crown. Since early in the 18th century, Tory had described those upholding the right of the King over Parliament. During the war of independence, particularly after the Declaration of Independence in 1776, this use was extended to cover anyone who remained loyal to the British Crown. About 80% of the Loyalists remained in the United States after the war. The 60,000 or so Loyalists who settled in Quebec, the Bahamas, or returned to Great Britain after the American War of Independence are known as United Empire Loyalists."[13]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory


    Also, contrary to what some, perhaps in the same circles as above, want some to be ignorant of, is that some of the first white people to the New World who were also VERY conservative in their Christian beliefs, did NOT only, NOT say "Merry Christmas" at Christmas time, but frowned upon it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...an_New_England



    Apparently what does not fall under their tightly controlled narratives, is deemed to be "fake", because it would not due to have an informed and intelligent public, then they might have cause to actually think on their own, and should the gods forbid, think for themselves!!


    Unless one might be in those circles, they would still believe that yes, ADULTERY, greed, gluttony, narcissism and lying are all sins/bad/(not good values), NOT something to ignore when electing someone to be the POTUS.




    "Yours is one of the few lives precious to mankind, and for the continuance of which every thinking man is solicitous. Bigots may be an exception. What an effort, my dear sir, of bigotry in politics and religion have we gone through! The barbarians really flattered themselves they should be able to bring back the times of Vandalism, when ignorance put everything into the hands of power and priestcraft. All advances in science were proscribed as innovations. They pretended to praise and encourage education, but it was to be the education of our ancestors. We were to look backwards, not forwards, for improvement … This was the real ground of all the attacks on you. Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy — the most sublime and benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man — endeavored to crush your well-earned & well-deserved fame."

    -Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Dr. Joseph Priestley (21 March 1801); published in The Life of Thomas Jefferson (1871) by Henry Stephens Randall, Vol. 2, p. 644; this seems to be the source of a misleading abbreviation: "[Christianity is] the most … perverted system that ever shone on man".


    The question therefore now comes forward, To what other objects shall these surpluses be appropriated, and the whole surplus of impost, after the entire discharge of the public debt, and during those intervals when the purposes of war shall not call for them? Shall we suppress the impost and give that advantage to foreign over domestic manufactures? On a few articles of more general and necessary use the suppression in due season will doubtless be right, but the great mass of the articles on which impost is paid are foreign luxuries, purchased by those only who are rich enough to afford themselves the use of them.

    Their patriotism would certainly prefer its continuance and application to the great purposes of the public education, roads, rivers, canals, and such other objects of public improvement as it may be thought proper to add to the constitutional enumeration of Federal powers. By these operations new channels of communications will be opened between the States, the lines of separation will disappear, their interests will be identified, and their union cemented by new and indissoluble ties. Education is here placed among the articles of public care, not that it would be proposed to take its ordinary branches out of the hands of private enterprise, which manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal, but a public institution can alone supply those sciences which though rarely called for are yet necessary to complete the circle, all the parts of which contribute to the improvement of the country and some of them to its preservation.

    -Thomas Jefferson's Sixth State of the Union Address (2 December 1806). Advising the origination of an annual fund to be spent through new constitutional powers (by new amendments) from projected surplus revenue.


    "Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. Education & free discussion are the antidotes of both."
    -Thomas Jefferson - Letter to John Adams (1 August 1816)


    "I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."

    -Thomas Jefferson - Letter to William Charles Jarvis (28 September 1820)
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 9th November 2017 at 11:58 AM.

  5. #25
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    54,932
    Thanks
    42468

    From
    CA
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Fascinating piece. Experiencing similar opinions regarding public universities here as well.

    Americans are increasingly losing faith in higher education. Republicans see universities as out of touch, pushing a liberal agenda on their students. Democrats see them as too expensive. Increasingly, the working class sees higher education as not worth the cost — despite the fact that a growing share of jobs require a postsecondary degree.

    Today’s University of Michigan includes more than its share of blue bloods and people with inherited wealth. Like many other flagship state universities that were founded to provide a leg up for the common man, Michigan has become a school largely for students with means. A full 10 percent of its student body comes from families in the top 1 percent of earners, according to data from the Equality of Opportunity Project. Just 16 percent come from families in the bottom 60 percent of earners combined. The median income of parents of students at the university is $156,000, roughly three times the median income of Michigan families.

    There’s a sense that working-class students don’t belong there.

    Indeed, many flagship state universities like Michigan have, despite their public missions, come to operate more like elite private universities, closer in spirit to the Ivy League than the desire for equal opportunity that helped create them. It’s a trend that’s brought increased selectivity but also a crisis of affordability and deep alienation from lower-income communities in the states they’re supposed to serve. Since the late 1990s, nearly two-thirds of public universities increased the share of students in the top 20 percent and reduced the share from the bottom 40 percent.

    “We are shutting the doors of higher education — of public higher education — to low-income students,” said Stephen Burd, who led the New America analysis. “That’s incredibly distressing considering public higher education is supposed to be the cheaper option that common people — real people — could go to. Now you see these public colleges are acting just like the private colleges. It’s kind of scary in terms of what this means for opportunity in this country.”

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-income-244420
    From your link


    Tuition, which has shot up to compensate for steep state budget cuts, is a major culprit. So, too, is an elite reputation that serves to drive away potential applicants in the state that sealed Donald Trump’s victory in the 2016 election: There’s a sense that working-class students don’t belong there.


    The University of Michigan, like some others, appears to have been slow to respond to the dangers of encroaching elitism, but officials have taken steps in recent years to turn it around — most notably announcing that, starting next year, the university will offer free tuition to Michigan families making less than $65,000 per year.

    The article also does not mention how many student's get financial aid. Or what their admission standards are. So I looked it up. The admission rate is 28% with an average GOP of 3.87

    You have to meet the criteria to get in, in the first place. So perhaps it's more that prospective student's don't meet the criteria and instead want to blame the "elitism" of the school??

  6. #26
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    54,932
    Thanks
    42468

    From
    CA
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    ............while simultaneously punishing poor whites and asians in the name of "diversity."

    HOW DIVERSITY PUNISHES ASIANS, POOR WHITES AND LOTS OF OTHERS
    Oh geez.


    All your links have nothing to do with the actual topic.

    Michigan did away with affirmative action in their universities

  7. #27
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    54,932
    Thanks
    42468

    From
    CA
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    All I can say is that for the most part in my real life, the ones going to college are the better off kids, private school kids and charter school kids. Our local high school had the lowest percent going off to college since the 1970s. Its terribly expensive to go and a lot of kids parents don't have their student loans paid off yet. Our neighbors son is a senior in high school and his parents are struggling with their loans still and they are 40. He doesn't think the struggle is worth it.
    Do they not seek universities that give out financial aid?

  8. #28
    Established Member fenrir's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    4,089
    Thanks
    687

    From
    Yoknapatawpha County
    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Oh geez.


    All your links have nothing to do with the actual topic.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirm...ty_of_Michigan


    Michigan did away with affirmative action in their universities
    Affirmative action refers to activities or policies that seek to help groups that are often affected by discrimination obtain equal access to opportunities, particularly in areas such as employment and education. In the early 2000s, the use of race, gender, and other factors in college and university admissions decisions came under attack. The University of Michigan was sued several times by students who felt they were denied admittance because they were white, and the idea of eliminating measures that provided women, minorities, and others with preferential treatment gained momentum. In 2006, voters approved Proposal 2—also called the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative—which "amend[ed] the Michigan Constitution to ban public institutions from discriminating against or giving preferential treatment to groups or individuals based on their race, gender, color, ethnicity, or national origin in public education, public employment, or public contracting". As a result, the university was prohibited from considering race as part of its holistic admissions process. Minority enrollment decreased, and the university was forced to develop alternative strategies to increase diversity among its student population.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    47,090
    Thanks
    29088

    From
    New Hampshire
    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Do they not seek universities that give out financial aid?
    Sure but often times its loans. Plus they also see friends and older siblings not making a ton of money and so deep in debt they just don't see the value.

  10. #30
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    54,932
    Thanks
    42468

    From
    CA
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. You don't know what your talking about...again.

    WASHINGTON — In a fractured decision that revealed deep divisions over what role the judiciary should play in protecting racial and ethnic minorities, the Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld a Michigan constitutional amendment that bans affirmative action in admissions to the state’s public universities.

    The 6-to-2 ruling effectively endorsed similar measures in seven other states. It may also encourage more states to enact measures banning the use of race in admissions or to consider race-neutral alternatives to ensure diversity.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/u...ction-ban.html

Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10th May 2017, 07:01 PM
  2. Working Class Zero
    By MaryAnne in forum Current Events
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 20th March 2017, 06:03 AM
  3. Replies: 76
    Last Post: 18th May 2015, 04:38 AM
  4. U.N. sees risk of crisis of confidence in dollar
    By michaelr in forum Economics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 31st May 2011, 06:52 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed