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Thread: A University faces a crisis of confidence amongst the working class

  1. #31
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Sure but often times its loans. Plus they also see friends and older siblings not making a ton of money and so deep in debt they just don't see the value.
    Lots of good school's give out generous financial aid. I know the paperwork is a PITA but it can be done.

    Both my kids have friends that while in college, had financial aid that covered probably 85 - 90% of their cost's.


    And I don't understand either why people don't make use of the their states CC's. You knock off your general ed classes at a fraction of the price.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Fascinating piece. Experiencing similar opinions regarding public universities here as well.

    Americans are increasingly losing faith in higher education. Republicans see universities as out of touch, pushing a liberal agenda on their students. Democrats see them as too expensive. Increasingly, the working class sees higher education as not worth the cost — despite the fact that a growing share of jobs require a postsecondary degree.

    Today’s University of Michigan includes more than its share of blue bloods and people with inherited wealth. Like many other flagship state universities that were founded to provide a leg up for the common man, Michigan has become a school largely for students with means. A full 10 percent of its student body comes from families in the top 1 percent of earners, according to data from the Equality of Opportunity Project. Just 16 percent come from families in the bottom 60 percent of earners combined. The median income of parents of students at the university is $156,000, roughly three times the median income of Michigan families.

    There’s a sense that working-class students don’t belong there.

    Indeed, many flagship state universities like Michigan have, despite their public missions, come to operate more like elite private universities, closer in spirit to the Ivy League than the desire for equal opportunity that helped create them. It’s a trend that’s brought increased selectivity but also a crisis of affordability and deep alienation from lower-income communities in the states they’re supposed to serve. Since the late 1990s, nearly two-thirds of public universities increased the share of students in the top 20 percent and reduced the share from the bottom 40 percent.

    “We are shutting the doors of higher education — of public higher education — to low-income students,” said Stephen Burd, who led the New America analysis. “That’s incredibly distressing considering public higher education is supposed to be the cheaper option that common people — real people — could go to. Now you see these public colleges are acting just like the private colleges. It’s kind of scary in terms of what this means for opportunity in this country.”

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-income-244420
    Anecdotally, I have a graduate degree from the University of Michigan, and so I have personally experienced the dichotomy or inherent contradiction of a University that is extremely vocal, political and partisan, passionate, even militant about leftist tenets like diversity, social justice, equality, et cetera, while in all respects also appearing to very much emulate Ivy League schools. It's long been referred to as "the Harvard of the Midwest," the school and its student body and sometimes faculty have long had reputations of pretentiousness, narcissism and superiority complexes, and it's long had some of the highest public university tuition levels in the country.
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  3. #33
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Lots of good school's give out generous financial aid. I know the paperwork is a PITA but it can be done.

    Both my kids have friends that while in college, had financial aid that covered probably 85 - 90% of their cost's.


    And I don't understand either why people don't make use of the their states CC's. You knock off your general ed classes at a fraction of the price.
    Our CCs are expensive here too, only positive there is one can live home while they attend.

    "New Hampshire community colleges had the highest net price: about $14,500 for annual income under $30,000 and about $19,000 for all other income brackets."

    https://www.lfda.org/news/nh-ranked-...munity-college

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Anecdotally, I have a graduate degree from the University of Michigan, and so I have personally experienced the dichotomy or inherent contradiction of a University that is extremely vocal, political and partisan, passionate, even militant about leftist tenets like diversity, social justice, equality, et cetera, while in all respects also appearing to very much emulate Ivy League schools. It's long been referred to as "the Harvard of the Midwest," the school and its student body and sometimes faculty have long had reputations of pretentiousness, narcissism and superiority complexes, and it's long had some of the highest public university tuition levels in the country.
    Yet you found the school worthy enough to get your grade degree.

  5. #35
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Anecdotally, I have a graduate degree from the University of Michigan, and so I have personally experienced the dichotomy or inherent contradiction of a University that is extremely vocal, political and partisan, passionate, even militant about leftist tenets like diversity, social justice, equality, et cetera, while in all respects also appearing to very much emulate Ivy League schools. It's long been referred to as "the Harvard of the Midwest," the school and its student body and sometimes faculty have long had reputations of pretentiousness, narcissism and superiority complexes, and it's long had some of the highest public university tuition levels in the country.
    Around here they joke about it being "Tom Bradys Harvard." lol

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Our CCs are expensive here too, only positive there is one can live home while they attend.

    "New Hampshire community colleges had the highest net price: about $14,500 for annual income under $30,000 and about $19,000 for all other income brackets."

    https://www.lfda.org/news/nh-ranked-...munity-college
    Holy Crap!!!

    Ours range in the 2-3K range.

    But they do also offer financial aid.

    I wonder why the cost is so high in NH??

  7. #37
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Holy Crap!!!

    Ours range in the 2-3K range.

    But they do also offer financial aid.

    I wonder why the cost is so high in NH??
    All of New England is high, Vermont comes in second. College is outrageous here. It can cost 40K for a public school.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    All of New England is high, Vermont comes in second. College is outrageous here. It can cost 40K for a public school.
    Not just New England.

    During the recession most the CA public universities had to raise tuition.

    I still can't figure out though why a CC should cost over 14K???

  9. #39
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Not just New England.

    During the recession most the CA public universities had to raise tuition.

    I still can't figure out though why a CC should cost over 14K???
    Well its New England and there is stigma around here. Ivy Leagues have massive pull here and the public schools need that affirmation that they are "good too."
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    The conservative take on why college costs so much is fairly straightforward, and I think probably a big piece of the puzzle.

    Basically, free flowing dollars for all from the government sends the message to universities. Go ahead and jack up your costs, because we'll keep making the loans. The government makes money on the loans, as do the various private organizations that service the loans. And since there is no recourse for student loans, borrowers are essentially in a debtor's prison, hamster wheel, too many stories of interest-only payments that they cannot escape this side of the grave, an $8,000 loan that turns into $75,000 in payments, that sort of thing.

    Another con game for Big Finance, in other words. The universities are participants, jacking up their costs in ways that are almost fraudulent even if they do actually spend the money taken in...on ludicrous classes, luxurious accommodations and amenities, essentially roads to nowhere. If kids we going to school, working a part-time job, doing their coursework, and playing frisbee, what the fuck is there to cost $30,000 per year per student? Or even much more?

    And all this in spite of the fact that despite the popular claims, most jobs do NOT require a college degree. Most jobs require training, not 4 years spent fulfilling the requirements of a liberal arts degree and trying to figure out how to get laid. Even advanced technical jobs you can teach people to do in a fraction of that time. Web designers, programmers, network engineers, administrative staff...what about those jobs requires a college degree? What does Psych 101 have to do with me training up to become a good programmer?

    I'm not discounting the Liberal Arts education. I still want it. I'm just saying that if this is how this shit is going to work, I'll get my Liberal Arts education at the library, reading the classics and everything I can get my hands on and teaching myself how to make up my own mind on complicated issues. Honestly, a mentor who could suggest reading and guide you through developing those thought processes, a couple of hours a week for the most part, would do the trick and produce a well rounded, critically thinking, mature adult.

    Who could then go out and learn how to weld pipes together or set up network switches or get in on the ground floor somewhere on the helpdesk learning systems and training up.

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