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Thread: Best high schools for 2018: most are charter schools

  1. #21
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Also interesting that the top five spots are taken by a single chain of schools in Arizona. That seems a bit unlikely to me. Do they advertise in USN&WR?

    But as Rasselas said, it kind of hinges on whether these "public" schools can tell kids who fall behind that they don't measure up and transfer them out to a truly public school. Or better yet have an entrance exam and prevent the kids who need education the most from ever entering.
    There are at least 5 or 6 different websites that "rank" schools.

    I take them all with a huge grain of salt.
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  2. #22
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That depends on the degree to which the charter school can choose which applicants it takes.
    Around here they do get to choose although being a small area, some always have openings. But I guess that there are some charters that take those "problem" children. Either those who have been expelled or in trouble all the time. They employ small class sizes and specialized teachers so they learn at their own pace and the idea is they dont act out.

  3. #23
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    So having lots of money and being able to both choose who attends and to punt the assholes leads to a better result for the rich enough and well behaved enough.

    Well color me 15 shades of surprised.
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  4. #24
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    So having lots of money and being able to both choose who attends and to punt the assholes leads to a better result for the rich enough and well behaved enough.

    Well color me 15 shades of surprised.
    Charter schools are normally considered public schools so they have no tuition. But most do have a lottery process to get in.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    So how do you think schools should be measured? I know some say certain tests, but usually most dont like that. Would it be a good idea to separate schools into charter, private, religious, general public? I think they used to do it that way but then they changed.
    The problem is a matter of comparison. It's important to compare apples to apples. The best method I've heard of is longitudinal with the same group of students. That is, you measure achievement of students when they enter a school. Then you measure their achievement at some point in the future (say at the ninth grade and then again at the 12th grade). You do this for all students at all schools you want to measure. What matters is the amount of difference a school makes for all its students over an extended period of time, and measuring student achievement increase between the schools rather than against some average.

    Even that's a highly flawed system when considered against my original concern. It accounts for differences in student body by recognizing that some students START ahead of others, so we shouldn't simply measure their achievement at exit--but it doesn't account for the fact that charter schools aren't required to deal with many of the issues that public schools must. Do these charter schools have to serve kids with special needs (most don't)? Do they have a significant segment of students who are English language learners? Accounting for minorities (which your OP study does) helps, but it's not ethnicity but socioeconomic class that most strongly affects student achievement.

    Part of the problem is that individual families have different needs/desires/interests that does society in the aggregate. As families, we want to find competitive advantages for our own children--those of us who value education, at least. As citizens, we should wish to see all Americans educated well. That's not really a reconcilable difference, is it?

    Because of NCLB, we have LOTS of data on student achievement in schools across the country. The evidence is striking: the two greatest factors in a school's level of achievement are 1) socioeconomic status (as measured by the percentage of students who qualify for free or reduced cost lunches) and 2) the percentage of students who are English language learners. I'd love to see whatever statistics are proffered about schools to be normed for these two factors. I suspect that the vaunted differences would be significantly reduced.
    Last edited by Rasselas; 9th May 2018 at 12:41 PM.
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  6. #26
    Established Member Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    This is a premier private school that is close to where I live. I have several friends who are sent their kids and now grandchildren to Lake Ridge. This school is very expensive, even with financial assistance. This school does not take vouchers and my friends spent a fortune on their education K-12. Kindergarten is 19K!! Twelfth grade is over 30K. It did pay off, all of their kids are top level professionals, lawyers, physicians, etc.

    https://www.lakeridgeacademy.org/

    The Jock schools around here are Catholic schools and are known for academics. St. Ignatius is a huge football school and Ohio State recruits directly from it. Jock schools can provide a full ride to any College who recruits them. St. Ignatius recruited a co workers son to play football for them and he was not even Catholic but he got a full ride. Private sports schools recruit as aggressively as colleges.

    https://www.ignatius.edu/
    i went to cincinnati Moeller (long ago) the Catholic schools in Cincinnati, Cleveland ,Louisville, are live the Super conference. Cincinatti Colerain is about the only public school that is willing or able to compete.
    Moeller is gonna have to build another trophy case. St Ignatious, St Eds, Cincy St X and Elder, Louisville Trinity... likely have a similar problem. Moeller had a sad football season (monster sceduale and injury to the QB.) They however are state Champs in Basketball and lacrosse. Might be champs in baseball and volleyball.
    Last edited by Redwood; 9th May 2018 at 03:53 PM. Reason: double post
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  7. #27
    Established Member Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    This is a premier private school that is close to where I live. I have several friends who are sent their kids and now grandchildren to Lake Ridge. This school is very expensive, even with financial assistance. This school does not take vouchers and my friends spent a fortune on their education K-12. Kindergarten is 19K!! Twelfth grade is over 30K. It did pay off, all of their kids are top level professionals, lawyers, physicians, etc.

    https://www.lakeridgeacademy.org/

    The Jock schools around here are Catholic schools and are known for academics. St. Ignatius is a huge football school and Ohio State recruits directly from it. Jock schools can provide a full ride to any College who recruits them. St. Ignatius recruited a co workers son to play football for them and he was not even Catholic but he got a full ride. Private sports schools recruit as aggressively as colleges.

    https://www.ignatius.edu/
    i went to cincinnati Moeller (long ago) the Catholic schools in Cincinnati, Cleveland ,Louisville, are live the Super conference. Cincinatti Colerain is about the only public school that is willing or able to compete.
    Moeller is gonna have to build another trophy case. St Ignatious, St Eds, Cincy St X and Elder, Louisville Trinity... likely have a similar problem. Moeller had a sad football season (monster sceduale and injury to the QB.) They however are state Champs in Basketball and lacrosse. Might be champs in baseball and volleyball.

    The TOP Catholic schools NOW are expensive. Like.. tuition like a college. those schools ain't just " jock" they really send off a LOT of students with academic scholarships. FEW "charters" are outstanding. MANY are below average and BLEED Tax $ needed for public schools.

  8. #28
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I'm wondering how many of those schools get to choose their students.
    Thatís the key difference. Charter schools can cherry-pick their students, avoiding students that will require more school resources. Public schools take everyone; without exception. And if a student is severely disabled and requires a dedicated instructor, the public school is obligated to provide it.

    Itís no surprise that charter schools do better; they get to pick the students they want, and leave the others behind.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Around here they do get to choose although being a small area, some always have openings. But I guess that there are some charters that take those "problem" children. Either those who have been expelled or in trouble all the time. They employ small class sizes and specialized teachers so they learn at their own pace and the idea is they dont act out.
    Most of the charter schools around here are for children with behavioral problems. My husband work on a chain of them as a IT contractor installing networks or something, and he was gobsmacked by the behavior of those kids. One school was scary, the school purchased 200 Chrome books for the students use and at the end of a month, only 60 were still intact and not destroyed. He saw kids hurl them into the wall. Each teacher has a "goon" lurking in the background in case one of them goes off. I was offered a job for a charter school that had multiple locations as a traveling school nurse and turned it down. I did not want to give meds all day to children. Most were psych and seizure meds. I could never teach in a charter school for behavioral issues.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    i went to cincinnati Moeller (long ago) the Catholic schools in Cincinnati, Cleveland ,Louisville, are live the Super conference. Cincinatti Colerain is about the only public school that is willing or able to compete.
    Moeller is gonna have to build another trophy case. St Ignatious, St Eds, Cincy St X and Elder, Louisville Trinity... likely have a similar problem. Moeller had a sad football season (monster sceduale and injury to the QB.) They however are state Champs in Basketball and lacrosse. Might be champs in baseball and volleyball.

    The TOP Catholic schools NOW are expensive. Like.. tuition like a college. those schools ain't just " jock" they really send off a LOT of students with academic scholarships. FEW "charters" are outstanding. MANY are below average and BLEED Tax $ needed for public schools.
    Saint Ed's is known for high MCAT scores. A lot of their students track pre-med as well. You are correct about the expense tho...some catholic schools are 12K a year. It used to be, back in the day, you just had to be a member of the church and pay very little tuition. Today, you can get some costs reduced, but you have to perform service hours to their activities, like Bingo. LOL I am not familiar with the charter schools that are for the gifted. I have always referred to them as Academy's or Private. Most around here are for very severe behavioral problems and have been tossed out of public school. It is a last chance school and the ability to benefit is very low.

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