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Thread: Education tip o' the Day

  1. #1
    Jake

    Education tip o' the Day

    Dear Parents: Pay your own damn education bills. Do I ask you to pay for my ski vacation?

  2. #2
    Feslin

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    That's unfair to the children. Children should not be given less oppurtunity because their parents are poor.

  3. #3
    Jake

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Feslin View Post
    That's unfair to the children. Children should not be given less oppurtunity because their parents are poor.
    I agree to be taxed to support education for poor children, but it's ridiculous that I should pay it for anyone else - and I do.

  4. #4
    Feslin

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    I believe that if you use public schools, you pay the taxes for public schools. If you don't, you don't pay those taxes.

  5. #5
    Technocratic_Utilitarian

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    Education tip of the day:

    Skiing isn't morally analogous to education. You can't compare paying for a luxury and paying for something that universally and objectively improves the key welfare interests of the people.

    Education is critical for economic and social success in life; without a good education, you likely will not succeed in life. Having universal education provided to everyone is also a net positive since it usually gives access to education where millions had no access.

    A poorly educated society was usually the result of a lack of a formal public education system. Poorly educated electorates are bad. It's profitable for everyone to have an educated society.

  6. #6
    Dr.Knuckles

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    I don't have kids yet, I pay taxes for schools because when I'm sick I need a doctor, when I drive I need a bridge and a road, and when I vote I need a candidate who believes in dinosaurs. There are lots of countries where people are educated to the point they can afford.

    All of them are rotten, stinking shitholes of ignorance, superstition and crime where the educated live behind locked gates and have bodyguards take their kids to school.

  7. #7
    Jake

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
    Education tip of the day:

    Skiing isn't morally analogous to education. You can't compare paying for a luxury and paying for something that universally and objectively improves the key welfare interests of the people.
    Children are the result of the voluntary or negligent acts of their parents - they should pay for all consequent costs. Also, the "improve welfare interests" argument fails. Vitamins, clothing, shoes, soap, houses not in the slums, etc etc etc all improve well-being - why shouldn't those all be payed for by taxes, too?

    Education is critical for economic and social success in life; without a good education, you likely will not succeed in life. Having universal education provided to everyone is also a net positive since it usually gives access to education where millions had no access
    Uh, I certainly am not arguing against the value of education - but rather who should pay for it. If middle class people want to take on the project of a child, it's for THEM to pay for - and they have the means.

    A poorly educated society was usually the result of a lack of a formal public education system. Poorly educated electorates are bad. It's profitable for everyone to have an educated society.
    Strawman. See above.

  8. #8
    Jake

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I don't have kids yet, I pay taxes for schools because when I'm sick I need a doctor, when I drive I need a bridge and a road, and when I vote I need a candidate who believes in dinosaurs. There are lots of countries where people are educated to the point they can afford.

    All of them are rotten, stinking shitholes of ignorance, superstition and crime where the educated live behind locked gates and have bodyguards take their kids to school.
    You're presenting a false dichotomy. Parents who have children and who have the means (e.g., the vast american middle class) should pay for all their children's needs, including education. Poor children can be paid for by taxes.

  9. #9
    Technocratic_Utilitarian

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    Children are the result of the voluntary or negligent acts of their parents - they should pay for all consequent costs. Also, the "improve welfare interests" argument fails. Vitamins, clothing, shoes, soap, houses not in the slums, etc etc etc all improve well-being - why shouldn't those all be payed for by taxes, too?
    Irrelevant. Your original analogy was based on faulty logic; you tried to compare providing non-necessity luxury activities and something that is a basic human right (according to the UN declaration of Human Rights). You also tried to compare a necessity for a functional society and something that's not.

    Third, education prevents significant suffering, poverty, and ignorance in society that usually resulted in history from lack of access to proper, universal education. The same consequence cannot be said of preventing funding of vacations. No, the argument doesn't fail. Yours does, however.

    In fact, we should have a universal healthcare system to help pay for key welfare interests of people to aquire medical care, health items. If you need vitamines, and you cannot afford them, it ought to be covered by the Insurance.

    2. Whether or not they are indeed the product of negligent parents, it is equally irrelevant. They are suffering, society can prevent that unnecessary suffering of the children. Education is a great way to do that, and everyone uses it, so they are not only getting a retrun on themselves, but a superior society.




    Uh, I certainly am not arguing against the value of education - but rather who should pay for it. If middle class people want to take on the project of a child, it's for THEM to pay for - and they have the means.
    That's stupid. Society ought to pay for it, since society benefits from having education. It's also too expensive for individuals to finance themselves unless you have oddles of money. This "all private education" system was tried in the 18th and 19th centuries; it didn't work, and only cultivated a) massive poverty and b) second class citizens.

    Your idea is moronic.

    Strawman, See above
    Incorrect; I never said you argued against any and all education in general, but public education. You want parents of a nebulous group to fund it themselves because their children are not your responsibility. Using that logic, you can apply it to everyone. You indeed argued against public education de facto. You essentially want to go back to some retarded 18th century system where private schools replace public ed, the rich get the best education due to second-class divisions, it's a free for all to see how can get education in expensive private insitutions (that, if you think logically, cannot even provide any better an education if you flood the market with all people). Your idea of private funded only for the masses has been tried; it failed miserably compared to even the increasly crappy public ed system.

    And no, middle class cannot all pay for it. Private schools are often prohibitively expensive, and the flood of the market would decrease the quality of the normally selective private institutions, which maintain high ranks by cherry-picking selectees.

  10. #10
    ilikeGW

    Re: Education tip o' the Day

    Techo, you like to call people and their ideas, stupid, moronic, etc. I think you're projecting. Take it down a notch, will ya?

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