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Thread: Are the English Fit to Govern Themselves?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    I do not challenge the fact that Bayerisch may be a language of its own.... When in Munich, I really understand people only after a few days.... But you can say the same with many German dialects.... And within tiny Switzerland dialects may be so different, that most Swiss Germans do not understand the dialect spoken in the German speaking part of Wallis......


    For the rest you seem to have some nostalgy of the Holy Roman Empire...... whicg is part of History too....
    The holy empire is dead since 1806. Napoleon destroyed it and the house Habsburg, the Swiss Dynastie from the Kanton Aargau, which had ruled at last the holy empire for centuries, gave up their responsibility to defend Germany any longer, because it was just simple impossible to do so. The German emperor became an Austrian emperor. About 70 years later the Prussians filled this vacuum with their idiotic militaristic nonsense and the European way to world war 1+2 became more and more inevitable. World war 1+2 destroyed an unbelievable amount of different cultures in Europe. "Nostalgia" is not the correct word, if I take a look on all this possibilities and my sadness about the millions and millions and millions of murdered people all over Europe. Whatever. Swiss is a republic since - how long is this? 700 years? - and I prefer anyway the way of Swiss much more than the way of Germany. But who asks me? No one! I heard even some people don't like to allow a Bavarian to say his language is a language. How do you call this? ┐Swiss imperialism? :lol:


    Name of the language: Bavarian (en), bavarois (fr), bßvaro (es), баварский (ru)
    Alternate names: In Austria the language is called Austro-Bavarian.
    Vitality: Vulnerable
    Number of speakers: Not available, but in the range of millions
    Location(s): Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria and the Upper Palatinate in Bavaria, Germany; all of Austria except the state of Vorarlberg and parts of the Reutte district in Tyrol; the village of Samnaun in GraubŘnden, Switzerland; the province of South Tyrol, Italy
    Country or area: Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Switzerland

    Source: UNESCO Atlas of the World's Languages in danger

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 27th June 2017 at 12:48 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    The English Channel is what separates civilization from barbarism.

    I hear that's a popular joke in Merrie Olde England.
    It separates four (or by some account five) countries from the rest of the continent, whichever is which, but England is in the way.
    Thanks from Dangermouse

  3. #23
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    'Which Irish question? The Irish died on hunger, millions had to flee and the Brits exported food from Ireland to England the same time. When had Switzerland a vision like this or made such a project? Never or never? So which damned question do you speak about? The independence of Irland is not a question. "Death or alive" was the question. And the Irish answer was "alive".'

    I think you'd have found that the well-off farmers of Ireland would have had something to say if the aristocratic/bourgeois English government of the time had suddenly introduced some sort of socialism and stopped them making a profit by selling in Britain!
    Last edited by Iolo; 27th June 2017 at 03:46 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaangalewa View Post
    The holy empire is dead since 1806. Napoleon destroyed it and the house Habsburg, the Swiss Dynastie from the Kanton Aargau, which had ruled at last the holy empire for centuries, gave up their responsibility to defend Germany any longer, because it was just simple impossible to do so. The German emperor became an Austrian emperor. About 70 years later the Prussians filled this vacuum with their idiotic militaristic nonsense and the European way to world war 1+2 became more and more inevitable. World war 1+2 destroyed an unbelievable amount of different cultures in Europe. "Nostalgia" is not the correct word, if I take a look on all this possibilities and my sadness about the millions and millions and millions of murdered people all over Europe. Whatever. Swiss is a republic since - how long is this? 700 years? - and I prefer anyway the way of Swiss much more than the way of Germany. But who asks me? No one! I heard even some people don't like to allow a Bavarian to say his language is a language. How do you call this? ┐Swiss imperialism? :lol:


    Name of the language: Bavarian (en), bavarois (fr), bßvaro (es), баварский (ru)
    Alternate names: In Austria the language is called Austro-Bavarian.
    Vitality: Vulnerable
    Number of speakers: Not available, but in the range of millions
    Location(s): Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria and the Upper Palatinate in Bavaria, Germany; all of Austria except the state of Vorarlberg and parts of the Reutte district in Tyrol; the village of Samnaun in GraubŘnden, Switzerland; the province of South Tyrol, Italy
    Country or area: Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Switzerland

    Source: UNESCO Atlas of the World's Languages in danger

    What kind of a Swiss imperialism.... as far as language is concerned.....with so many Swiss German dialects still in very good shape and even used in Church, courts etc..... Swiss imperialism is more about watches, chocolate and fondue......... And the House of Habsburg comes from Switzerland (Argau) but the present Habsburgs are Habsburg Lothringen andnot so genuine as far Swiss origin is concerned.... And for me Bayerisch is as much a language as Bńrn Tytsch, which became a written language during the XIXth Century, even though people in Switzerland write normally in Schriftdeutsch. I do not know if people in Bayern write often in their language...... For us French Swiss the situation is different. Because of protestantism, when people had from the XVIth Century to learn how to read and write and reading the Bible was a must, little by little dialects did fade away. And present Switzerland is mainly the result of Protestantism, the economy being mostly in the hands of protestants. May be Catholics in Switzerland were the loosers when modern Switzerland was established, but the way the victors did things was much less violent than in Germany and there is littleleft of these divisions nowadays...... We had no Iron Chancellor.....!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
    'Which Irish question? The Irish died on hunger, millions had to flee and the Brits exported food from Ireland to England the same time. When had Switzerland a vision like this or made such a project? Never or never? So which damned question do you speak about? The independence of Irland is not a question. "Death or alive" was the question. And the Irish answer was "alive".'

    I think you'd have found that the well-off farmers of Ireland would have had something to say if the aristocratic/bourgeois English government of the time had suddenly introduced some sort of socialism and stopped them making a profit by selling in Britain!
    With or without the help of Wales and the great Welshmen Lenin and Stalin?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyGf7-B0hE
    Last edited by zaangalewa; 27th June 2017 at 09:37 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ăthelfrith View Post
    I voted Brexit and would be called a Bennite. My family voted Brexit because of the innate conservatism of the EU. My best mate vote Brexit because of the fisheries policy. My other mates voted Brexit because the status quo has failed them.

    The decimation of the UKIP vote shows that this goes well beyond nationalism. You've chosen a pathetic source to pander to some idiotic anti-English tosspottedness. In contrast, this is a brilliant piece of journalism:

    The New York Times, or the Independent, a pathetic source to pander to some idiotic anti-English tosspottedness, in contrast with Russia Today? Yeah, okay.

    Interesting how many Brexiters you are acquainted with, and how many phoney reasons you can come up with, to deny it has something to do with English nationalism.

    Anxiters would probably be a better term.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    The New York Times, or the Independent, a pathetic source to pander to some idiotic anti-English tosspottedness, in contrast with Russia Today? Yeah, okay.

    Interesting how many Brexiters you are acquainted with, and how many phoney reasons you can come up with, to deny it has something to do with English nationalism.

    Anxiters would probably be a better term.
    You've got nothing to say

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ăthelfrith View Post
    You've got nothing to say
    Yes, I have to admit the original article speaks for itself, and is quite funny, too.

    Too bad if it's got you on the defensive.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Yes, I have to admit the original article speaks for itself, and is quite funny, too.

    Too bad if it's got you on the defensive.
    It was tosh. You clearly have no quality control.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    What kind of a Swiss imperialism.
    Perhaps your own personal imperialism or bossiness?

    ... as far as language is concerned.....
    What's your problem with languages? Do you like to teach the Brits Swiss? First word "tik-tok" and they will answer with the Big Ben theory?

    with so many Swiss German dialects still in very good shape and even used in Church, courts etc.....
    The Swiss get subtitles in the German TV, because nearly no one understands the German "dialects" of the people in Switzerland. Normally Bavarians understand Swiss without a big problem.

    Swiss imperialism is more about watches, chocolate and fondue.........
    Good grief ... it was a joke. Since when did anyone in Switzerland force anyone else in the world to follow the own rules?

    And the House of Habsburg comes from Switzerland (Argau) but the present Habsburgs are Habsburg Lothringen andnot so genuine as far Swiss origin is concerned.... And for me Bayerisch is as much a language as Bńrn Tytsch,
    Who cares?

    which became a written language during the XIXth Century,
    We Bavarians were able to speak with Langobards - ancestors of ZZ-top - in the 5th century without any interpreter. What's going on now? Since when needs a Bavarian an interpreter, if he speaks with someone from Switzerland? I just simple said although we are for the most people in the world typical Germans, we are in reality not typical Germans. Lots of Bavarians don't love Germany and don't see themselves as Germans. I compared the situation in Ireland (Irish) with the situation of the Bayerland (Spoken: B-Ireland) or the bayerisch (spoken b-irish). Lots of comments from Germans against Bavarians have a racial background. Nevertheless we are a part of Germany. And I said our problems in Bavaria are not far from the problems of Ireland, because our economy has a lot to do with the economy of Great Britain. What happens now - the Brexit - is not easy for us too. And I warned in this context to make a real border between then people of Northern-Ireland (GB) and Ireland (EU). That's not good. The people thre should not have to suffer only because politicians like to change their systems.

    even though people in Switzerland write normally in Schriftdeutsch. I do not know if people in Bayern write often in their language......
    Bairisch (Bavarian) is a language. Ask experts. If they say "no, it isn't" then forget this idiot and take a look for a real expert. Or would you say "Dutch" is also a German dialect?

    For us French Swiss the situation is different.
    Sure. You speak French.

    Because of protestantism,
    ┐Protestantism?

    when people had from the XVIth Century to learn how to read and write and reading the Bible was a must, little by little dialects did fade away.
    Languages are changing. So it's not easy to read the Wulfila bible today for example.

    And present Switzerland is mainly the result of Protestantism,
    Wilhelm Tell was a protestant?

    he economy being mostly in the hands of protestants.
    I guess our economy here is in the hands of Catholics and we have to pay every year a lot of money for development aid to the protestants in Germany.

    May be Catholics in Switzerland were the loosers when modern Switzerland was established,
    Who cares? That's a problem of Switzerland and not a problem of the holy Catholic Church. No one forces anyone to have to be a Catholic.

    but the way the victors did things was much less violent than in Germany and there is littleleft of these divisions nowadays...... We had no Iron Chancellor.....!
    Iron Chancellor? Angela Merkel? Goof grief! Can it be you live in the Switzerland of planet Arcturus and not in the Switzerland of planet Earth?

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 27th June 2017 at 10:48 AM.

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