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Thread: Brexit is Taking a Toll on the UK's International Clout

  1. #1
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Brexit is Taking a Toll on the UK's International Clout

    The Brexit vote was for many Brits much like the vote for Trump here in the US. It was a big ole middle finger to the powers that be. But in so doing they cut their noses off to spite their faces.

    Too bad that’s changing. A few recent events illustrate how Brexit has taken its toll on Britain’s foreign policy. In June, the U.K. lost a humiliating U.N. General Assembly vote over the Chagos Islands. London had tried to block an effort by Mauritius to refer a dispute over the islands to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In a stone-cold move that would have been unthinkable 18 months ago, several EU and NATO partners chose to abstain, rather than support the U.K.

    Then in late November, the U.K. failed to secure a second term for its judge serving in the ICJ, losing against a challenger from India. Having deemed it “impractical” to exercise its veto against a coalition of developing countries, the U.K. found itself without a seat on the court for the first time since it was set up in 1945.

    Such incidents are superficial compared to the bigger picture: For power summitry that really matters — like the G7 — the U.K. presence has been barely noticeable since its domestic conundrums started to pile up. One sherpa present at the 2016 Ise-Shima summit, just before the Brexit referendum, recalled that “no one took notice whenever the U.K. raised an issue, and just simply changed the topic.” Silent treatment is cruel, even in the clubhouse of power-alphas.


    The truth is that Britain’s strategic importance has been waning with an exponential half-life, even before Brexit. Prime Minister Theresa May is scaling up the country’s presence on NATO’s border with Russia, Iraq and Afghanistan. But the U.K. rarely has an indispensable role.
    Brexit could very well be the country’s worst geo-economic miscalculation to date. The U.K.’s global role springs from its close relationships with continental Europe (from which it is abdicating) and the White House. The declining affinity between the U.K. and the U.S. in recent years has proven the limits of Britain’s influence over a range of issues, from a transatlantic trade pact to intervention in Syria. And the era of America First makes it unlikely it will return anytime soon.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...nking-britain/
    Last edited by Babba; 27th January 2018 at 08:28 AM.
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  2. #2
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    We're not far behind.

    Withdrawing to the sidelines to see what the rest of the world will do when they learn they don't need us. Pretending we can step back in and matter at any point.
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  3. #3
    Bad Policy Good Politics DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    We're not far behind.

    Withdrawing to the sidelines to see what the rest of the world will do when they learn they don't need us. Pretending we can step back in and matter at any point.
    Hopefully Trump will be gone before too much damage can be caused. Trump does not have the apparatus behind him to affect too much change.

  4. #4
    Bad Policy Good Politics DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    The Brexit vote was for many Brits much like the vote for Trump here in the US. It was a big ole middle finger to the powers that be. But in so doing they cut their noses off to spite their faces.





    https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...nking-britain/
    Alliances matter. One can not expect to leave alliances and still reap the benefits of being in an alliance.
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  5. #5
    New Member Mandarina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    Alliances matter. One can not expect to leave alliances and still reap the benefits of being in an alliance.
    Yes, i agree, Brexit was a big mistake, it's already affects Britain not only politically, but also economically. London is not the best place to invest in the real estate anymore - at least that is what the foreighn analitics says - "London, which has always been considered a safe haven for property investments, demonstrated a 1.6% decline in 2017, according to Nationwide Building Society. Fitch Ratings does not expect prices in the UK to grow in 2018 and expects a slight fall in prices across London and South East England as a result of financial companies relocating their offices outside the UK after Brexit."prooflink
    Foreigners now prefer to buy property in EU - Spain or Greece, according to this article, and i can understand them - if one is doing this kind of investment, he is expecting to be the part of the bigger coalition and ecomony, not the smaller one
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  6. #6
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandarina View Post
    Yes, i agree, Brexit was a big mistake, it's already affects Britain not only politically, but also economically. London is not the best place to invest in the real estate anymore - at least that is what the foreighn analitics says - "London, which has always been considered a safe haven for property investments, demonstrated a 1.6% decline in 2017, according to Nationwide Building Society. Fitch Ratings does not expect prices in the UK to grow in 2018 and expects a slight fall in prices across London and South East England as a result of financial companies relocating their offices outside the UK after Brexit."prooflink
    Foreigners now prefer to buy property in EU - Spain or Greece, according to this article, and i can understand them - if one is doing this kind of investment, he is expecting to be the part of the bigger coalition and ecomony, not the smaller one
    Welcome, Mandarina!

  7. #7
    olguy OlGuy's Avatar
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    You can check out but you can never leave.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Thing is: Norway’s not in the EU. Neither is Switzerland. Nor Iceland. And no one seems to think there’s anything wrong with that. Sweden doesn’t use the Euro. And no one considers these places xenophobic for doing so.

    The difference is, these countries are NOT global actors. They don’t champion overseas interests, they don’t regime change, they don’t gather international alliances under their leadership.

    They can be independent because they don’t ever ask for global cooperation towards their own ends.

    If The US or UK want to go it alone, like Switzerland or Norway, then that’s fine. God bless. But you can’t go it alone when it suits you AND be the global enforcer of international waterways, chair the IMF, veto the UN, direct multinational armies, run the WHO and world bank.

    No. Just .... no.

    You cant direct unified multinational NATO assets to go stand on a hostile border on Monday, and then tell those same countries that you’re only in it for yourself and are only looking out for your own interests on Tuesday. What the fuck was that multinational force all about then?


    Theres a batch of voters in both countries who want to put their national interest first, and they want hundreds of other countries to happily follow their leadership.

    Real world tends to slap that down PDQ.

    You can be a leader of a group for mutual benefit. Or you can stand alone, without the group, for your own benefit.

    You cannot be a leader of a group for your own benefit.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 28th June 2018 at 07:30 AM.

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