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Thread: National Healthcare Poll

  1. #21
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    Your source if you read it says that number is Bogus. oops.

    Didn't read th fine print.. only the headline

    In short, using some very specific analyses, one could make the case that (at least within the last several years) about 643,000 Americans declared bankruptcy annually due to medical bills. But the accuracy of those analyses is open to question,

  2. #22
    Conservatively Liberal NiteGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Your source if you read it says that number is Bogus. oops.

    Didn't read th fine print.. only the headline
    Not bogus. Just open to question.

    Which means the number could be lower. It also means the number could be higher. Without getting their exact methodology, we have no real way of knowing for certain. Although, inside the article it was said two other studies came to numbers close to the number of medical bankruptcy from the authors of the article.

    However, I do dispute this number for one major reason. The ACA. This study was supposedly taken during a time when the ACA was in effect. If so, I would say that's an awful lot of bankruptcies due to medical reasons. Most states had Medicaid expansion for those making under a certain amount, set by the state.

    Many other would have been covered, presumably by an employers insurance program. And others still would have paid for their insurance, and most would have been eligible for subsidies for those who needed assistance.

    So, I doubt the 643,000 medical bankruptcies per year. maybe it is possible. But if so, I'm going to have to see a lot more than I saw in that article to convince me.
    Last edited by NiteGuy; 3rd April 2017 at 01:05 AM.

  3. #23
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    You're so right. I believe it started with the Reagan years when the first HMO was allowed to form. Imagine! The people who pick up the tab for healthcare are now in charge of it. And, by and large they get to determine what procedures are necessary and which aren't. And although they have price controls for goods and services used to stay healthy, there are no such controls on them or Big Pharma or hospitals or profits by any of them. And we wonder how it all got so out of control? Because there are no controls. Both parties have failed us in that regard but now there's a big GOP push to shut it down almost completely. No talk of how to make ACA better and no talk of price and profit controls. Congress hasn't even been effective on allowing market forces to work by allowing drugs to be purchased in Canada or ? And now all they talk about is letting free markets bring down costs to the consumer. A so-called free market with protections for the care givers and no such protection for the end user. It's become so ingrained in our psyche that almost no one ever challenges the costs when we get the sticker shock of our lives. No negotiating power whatsoever. The one industry that should never be about margins or gouging or answering to boards of directors. The system, as it exists not only doesn't have consumer protections but has become a purely profit driven industry, from top to bottom. Along comes Obama the devil and he fights against these practices and suggests we join the rest of the industrialized world in taking control of the enormous costs and rising premiums by spreading the costs over a wider demographic just like medicare and applying those controls like medicare and he's shot down on the one thing that has a chance to make it all work. Because of a set of beliefs held by so-called Conservatives, we must remain powerless and at the mercy of those HMO's and Drug companies etc. Worse than all that, these same ideologues want to take away healthcare benefits altogether or at least head in that direction. Disgusting. Obama was not the devil in this case. The devil is in the details of the new bill and in the minds of the GOP congress. I almost included Trump but he's a non factor. He'll sign any piece of shit put in front of him just to make it go away. But, it isn't going away. Thank goodness for Town Halls and folks who are fed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Medicare for all is essentially single payer and people base their opinion of it on the fact that they either use it themselves or know people who do.

    2/3 of people disapprove of our health care industry because it sucks. It's expensive and not user friendly at all.
    Last edited by namvet69; 3rd April 2017 at 02:34 AM.
    Thanks from Thx1138 and Babba

  4. #24
    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Your source if you read it says that number is Bogus. oops.

    Didn't read th fine print.. only the headline
    Medical Bankruptcies are Still a Problem, Here's What to Expect | Fox Business
    But medical bankruptcy doesnít just happen to the uninsured. In fact, research shows that many people who file for bankruptcy due to exorbitant medical costs have existing health insurance.


    This not a new problem...nor is it an Obamacare problem
    This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills

    Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
    Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com


    Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.

    The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

    Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness
    . However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy
    https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news...tcy_study.html

  5. #25
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    You're so right. I believe it started with the Reagan years when the first HMO was allowed to form. Imagine! The people who pick up the tab for healthcare are now in charge of it. And, by and large they get to determine what procedures are necessary and which aren't. And although they have price controls for goods and services used to stay healthy, there are no such controls on them or Big Pharma or hospitals or profits by any of them. And we wonder how it all got so out of control? Because there are no controls. Both parties have failed us in that regard but now there's a big GOP push to shut it down almost completely. No talk of how to make ACA better and no talk of price and profit controls. Congress hasn't even been effective on allowing market forces to work by allowing drugs to be purchased in Canada or ? And now all they talk about is letting free markets bring down costs to the consumer. A so-called free market with protections for the care givers and no such protection for the end user. It's become so ingrained in our psyche that almost no one ever challenges the costs when we get the sticker shock of our lives. No negotiating power whatsoever. The one industry that should never be about margins or gouging or answering to boards of directors. The system, as it exists not only doesn't have consumer protections but has become a purely profit driven industry, from top to bottom. Along comes Obama the devil and he fights against these practices and suggests we join the rest of the industrialized world in taking control of the enormous costs and rising premiums by spreading the costs over a wider demographic just like medicare and applying those controls like medicare and he's shot down on the one thing that has a chance to make it all work. Because of a set of beliefs held by so-called Conservatives, we must remain powerless and at the mercy of those HMO's and Drug companies etc. Worse than all that, these same ideologues want to take away healthcare benefits altogether or at least head in that direction. Disgusting. Obama was not the devil in this case. The devil is in the details of the new bill and in the minds of the GOP congress. I almost included Trump but he's a non factor. He'll sign any piece of shit put in front of him just to make it go away. But, it isn't going away. Thank goodness for Town Halls and folks who are fed up.
    One thing that needs mentioning @namvet69 and others...

    I really like what you have to say, I read many of your posts, but wish some of you would pars your posts into paragraphes more often...

    Heck, I separate every sentence almost by a line, and this is for easy reading purposes.

    Please... I like what you say, just wish you would tend a little more for the reader, thank you.

    And, while we're at it... I wish that a few here, along with setting their good threads, would also post a bit of the associated text... the jist of it at least...

    I'm sorry, but a "headline," a link and a "what do you think?" does not a thread starter make...

    Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.

    Thx
    Last edited by Thx1138; 3rd April 2017 at 05:03 AM.
    Thanks from labrea and RNG

  6. #26
    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Lets remember the polling on Repeal and replace before the proposed legislation was introduced.

    Most people believed that replace meant or wanted it to mean a government health insurance program.

    The GOP did a good job not explaining what replace meant. To most in the GOP Congress it still means no government participation in insuring health care.

    The battle in the GOP is how removed is the government going to be.

    Trump and Ron Paul played golf Sunday. Whose idea of government participation in Health care insurance has more chance of passing?

  7. #27
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiteGuy View Post
    Not bogus. Just open to question.

    Which means the number could be lower. It also means the number could be higher. Without getting their exact methodology, we have no real way of knowing for certain. Although, inside the article it was said two other studies came to numbers close to the number of medical bankruptcy from the authors of the article.

    However, I do dispute this number for one major reason. The ACA. This study was supposedly taken during a time when the ACA was in effect. If so, I would say that's an awful lot of bankruptcies due to medical reasons. Most states had Medicaid expansion for those making under a certain amount, set by the state.

    Many other would have been covered, presumably by an employers insurance program. And others still would have paid for their insurance, and most would have been eligible for subsidies for those who needed assistance.

    So, I doubt the 643,000 medical bankruptcies per year. maybe it is possible. But if so, I'm going to have to see a lot more than I saw in that article to convince me.
    Its still possible even with the ACA. I have a coworker going through bankruptcy due to medical reasons right now. The problem is still the insurers. For example in my coworkers case, she was diagnosed with leukemia. Well her doctors sent her to Boston which for her is out of network so her costs were way higher. Then they gave her some chemo treatment and the insurer balked. So they attempted a different treatment but she didn't respond well. So they gave her a different one and the insurers only paid 50%. They cited "covered costs." People need to look at their policies very carefully as insurers do this all the time. You may think your deductible and out of pocket is a certain amount, but if you read the small print, a lot of times it states "of covered costs" and they decide whats covered and whats not. So yes bankruptcies are still the issue.

    Another example.

    http://theweek.com/articles/666799/h...e-kills-people
    Last edited by bajisima; 3rd April 2017 at 05:49 AM.

  8. #28
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Sorry but that's the way I write. You, of course, have your own way. 24 flavors.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    One thing that needs mentioning @namvet69 and others...

    I really like what you have to say, I read many of your posts, but wish some of you would pars your posts into paragraphes more often...

    Heck, I separate every sentence almost by a line, and this is for easy reading purposes.

    Please... I like what you say, just wish you would tend a little more for the reader, thank you.

    And, while we're at it... I wish that a few here, along with setting their good threads, would also post a bit of the associated text... the jist of it at least...

    I'm sorry, but a "headline," a link and a "what do you think?" does not a thread starter make...

    Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.

    Thx

  9. #29
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    Sorry but that's the way I write. You, of course, have your own way. 24 flavors.
    Yeah, now see, that's more like it! ^

    Thx

  10. #30
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Hell, some folks have accused me of using run-on sentences but I don't think that's entirely true because after all what exactly is a run-on sentence anyway and who cares if I do use them which I'm not admitting to at all but I guess anything's possible if you really think about it and even if you don't really think about stuff like that because you'd pretty much have to be a real grammar nazi to even point something like that out or to even broach the subject and BTW how can anyone broach a subject because broaching would involve cooking which one cannot do to something as subjective as a subject which is by its very nature an impossibility and therefore should never even be brought up let alone taken seriously and how can one convey ideas when someone is constantly bringing up or as I said broaching it which I've already shown cannot be done under any circumstances unless of course one could somehow prove that a so-called run-on sentence is or even might be considered a breech of usage which of course is not a broach which sounds a lot like a breech but means something else entirely don't you agree?



    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    Yeah, now see, that's more like it! ^

    Thx

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