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Thread: US has the worst rate of maternal deaths in the developed world

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    Affluence and wealth have a downside. Why are our poor obese? Why do they have money to spend on drugs? It's because our poor are the wealthiest poor people on the planet. Unfortunately people who have been encouraged to be "taken care of" by government do not take care of themselves. They don't eat healthy, they don't exercise, they don't seek prenatal care, they don't refrain from tobacco, alcohol and drugs while pregnant... And guess what the outcome is?
    The real-world data doesn't line up with that view. First, obviously, the rich in this country are thinner and healthier than the poor, and so this isn't a downside of affluence. It's a downside of being relatively poor within an affluent society. Second, obviously this isn't a side-effect of people being taken care of by government. If you look around a countries that have much lower obesity and better average health levels than the US, they're pretty much universally countries where more is done to "take care of" the poor than we do.... places where the poor have universal access to high-quality healthcare, subsidized childcare, etc. In places like France, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, etc., life is easier for the poor, and they're thinner than our poor people.

    Even within the US you can see that. Check out the obesity rates of highly conservative states where the government does as little as it can get away with to support the poor. Check out Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama, for example. Now compare that to obesity in places known for their political liberalism: DC, Hawaii, Massachusetts, California, and Vermont. Which set of states is thinner, the one where government has a strong commitment to providing as much social safety net to the poor as they can, or the set where the tenets of conservative political correctness are put ahead of the interests of vulnerable residents?

    At some point, mere rhetoric isn't enough. At some point you need to step back and look at what's happening out in the real world, and judge whether that lines up with the framework your propaganda sources handed you.
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  2. #42
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I don't think our terrible healthcare system is the entirety of the reason for high US mortality rates. There are doubtless a number of causes. For example, our laissez faire approach to development has resulted in sprawl and horrible public transit, rendering most areas impossible to live and work in without constant recourse to the car. That means little walking and biking relative to other countries, which helps to make us fat and lazy and unhealthy. We also have no mandatory paid vacation or family leave, and very spotty application and enforcement of overtime rules, which results in Americans working much longer hours than in most other wealthy countries, also making it harder to live healthy lifestyles. And we subsidize the living crap out of corn in this country, which results in dirt-cheap carbohydrate bombs, by way of corn flower and high fructose corn syrup. Then there's our lack of gun control, which contributes to a much larger share of our population being murdered or maimed than is typical in other wealthy nations. Our rampant militarism probably also isn't helping.... although the number of service men coming home in body bags from out half-baked wars is probably not high enough to make a serious impact on mortality, the secondary impacts, by way of damaged soldiers becoming opioid addicts and domestic abusers might well show up in the mortality stats.

    But, we know without a reasonable doubt that our terrible healthcare system is a major factor. There have been too many confirming studies to dismiss that notion. For example, after Romneycare went into effect, researchers tracked mortality in Massachusetts and compared it to mortality in a matched set of counties in other states (counties with similar demographics and mortality stats as the Massachusetts counties, thus acting as a collective "control group"). It turns out that boosting healthcare access by way of something that amounted to a state-level Obamacare significantly brought down mortality, relative to the control group, saving thousands of lives. When we have that kind of data emphasizing the importance of health care access to mortality outcomes, it would be foolish to pretend our one-of--kind piece of shit of a healthcare system isn't part of the reason our mortality rates are higher than those in just about every other major wealthy nation.

    Well dang. You pretty much covered all the bases.

    In your eyes is there anything about this country that doesn't suck....??

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Life expectancy down due to opioid crisis.

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...ife-expectancy
    Life expectancy down due to Obamacare.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Well dang. You pretty much covered all the bases.

    In your eyes is there anything about this country that doesn't suck....??
    There are a great many things about this country that don't suck. At the top of the list is that I know of no country that guards the freedom of speech as fiercely as we do. That gives us the chance to use that freedom to identify things that are wrong with our country and argue for ways to fix them.
    Thanks from labrea

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    Life expectancy down due to Obamacare.
    Life expectancy is up since Obamacare was passed. Specifically, it was 78.5 the year before Obamacare and is now 78.8. However, that, on its own, doesn't tell us much, since it could have risen for reasons unrelated to Obamacare -- advances in medical technology, for example. That's why the real test is to track US life expectancy versus that of other leading nations. If it's just a rising tide of medical technology improvements lifting all boats, then the US will not have improved relative to its peers. It turns out, though, that it did improve relative to its peers. The CIA World Factbook life expectancy ratings say we went from 49th to 42nd since Obamacare was passed -- moving ahead of a few nations like Denmark and Portugal where people used to outlive us. That's all the more impressive when you remember that before Obamacare we were falling down those rankings. Although life expectancy was rising, back then, due to technological improvements, it was rising more slowly than in other wealthy nations, causing us to lag ever-further behind. So, we went from sliding to rising in the international rankings.
    Last edited by Arkady; 29th September 2017 at 07:20 AM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Life expectancy is up since Obamacare was passed. Specifically, it was 78.5 the year before Obamacare and is now 78.8. However, that, on its own, doesn't tell us much, since it could have risen for reasons unrelated to Obamacare -- advances in medical technology, for example. That's why the real test is to track US life expectancy versus that of other leading nations. If it's just a rising tide of medical technology improvements lifting all boats, then the US will not have improved relative to its peers. It turns out, though, that it did improve relative to its peers. The CIA World Factbook life expectancy ratings say we went from 49th to 42nd since Obamacare was passed -- moving ahead of a few nations like Denmark and Portugal where people used to outlive us. That's all the more impressive when you remember that before Obamacare we were falling down those rankings. Although life expectancy was rising, back then, due to technological improvements, it was rising more slowly than in other wealthy nations, causing us to lag ever-further behind. So, we went from sliding to rising in the international rankings.
    IMG_7212.JPG

    Mortality rates increased because of how hospitals were paid under Obamacare regarding patients' surveys about pain. The survey was removed.

    CMS Finalizes Hospital Outpatient Prospective Payment System Changes to Better Support Hospitals and Physicians and Improve Patient Care.

    1-11-2016

    Addressing Physicians’ Concerns Regarding Pain Management

    Today’s final rule would address physicians’ and other health care providers’ concerns that patient survey questions about pain management in the Hospital Value-Based Purchasing program unduly influence prescribing practices. While there is no empirical evidence of such an effect, we are finalizing the removal of the pain management dimension of the Hospital Consumer Assessment of Healthcare Providers and Systems (HCAHPS) Survey for purposes of the Hospital Value-Based Purchasing Program to eliminate any financial pressure clinicians may feel to overprescribe medications. CMS continues to believe that pain control is an appropriate part of routine patient care that hospitals should manage, and is an important concern for patients, their families, and their caregivers. CMS is continuing the development and field testing of alternative questions related to provider communications and pain, and will solicit comment on these alternatives in future rulemaking.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    U.S. Has The Worst Rate of Maternal Deaths In The Developed World : NPR

    Nearly threes times the number of women die in the US as do in the UK from complications of pregnancy and childbirth.

    All hail the God of the free market. Make America Great Again!
    What the hell could “the free market” possibly have to do with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    Is it because our health care system is based upon wealth instead of humanity?
    Obviously not, given that’s bogus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    There's been a lot of discussion, over the years, of the US's shamefully low life expectancy and shamefully high infant mortality rate. Since there's a whole cottage industry of propagandists kept on retainer at the right-wing think tanks to explain away such facts, one clever counter-factual argument that emerged was that the US situation was better than it appeared, but that our infant mortality was driven up and our life expectancy driven down by way of the US counting preemie births while most peer nations ignore any infant death of a premature infant that occurs before a certain period of time has elapsed. There was never anything to this argument, but it was a popular assertion since, if it were true, it would indeed result in us having an artificially high infant mortality rate and artificially low life expectancy, relative to our peers.

    The reason we know that's not, in fact, what's going on, is because of these other measures, like maternal mortality and childhood mortality (measures of mortality for kids in various age ranges beyond infancy) show the same pattern of data. When it comes to almost any of these large measures of public health outcomes, the US is a complete embarrassment.
    Sounds like you know what’s not causing the differences. So what is?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    What the hell could “the free market” possibly have to do with this?
    A system that basses access to medical care on ability to pay rather than need.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    A system that basses access to medical care on ability to pay rather than need.
    It isn’t based on that.

  10. #50
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    How are the amenable mortality rates going?

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