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Thread: US Fertility Rates Have Plummeted Into Uncharted Territory, And Nobody Knows Why

  1. #51
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    One thing I will say: do NOT try banning abortions.

    My old homeland did that, under pressure of Russian Orthodox Church: THE ABKHAZIAN CONSTITUTION NOW OFFICIALLY BANS ABORTIONS

    Here's how that worked out:

    A year and a half after Abkhazia banned abortion, reportedly to increase the number of births, reports of women’s deaths and pregnancy complications have became more numerous, yet the number of babies being born has not increased. Local activists have called on parliament to change the controversial new law, which they say discriminates against women.

    The amendment to the Law on Healthcare passed in early 2016 banned abortions in the South Caucasus territory in almost all circumstances. It has provoked heated discussion in Abkhazian society, with local activists still raise the issue periodically, arguing either for or against the law citing various arguments.

    ODR’s partners at OC Media spoke with three women who have been directly affected by the ban. All three asked to remain anonymous; they said that their problems were too sensitive to bring up in public — but that they could not remain silent.

    One mother of two who said that when her husband found out that the family was expecting one more member, he simply left. “He told me I should have just not got pregnant if I didn’t want to. He said that he couldn’t cope with family responsibilities anyway and he just left,” the woman recalls, with tears in her eyes. “I approached a charity and asked them to help me have an abortion, but they persuaded me to keep the child, promising to provide help after the birth.”

    The woman says that financial difficulties were the only reason she didn’t want to give birth to the child. “If mothers were given higher allowances, more than 500 roubles (£6.50) a month, we would have children. But the state doesn’t want to help us, all they do is to forbid things,” she sighed.

    Abkhazia’s de-facto president Raul Khadzhimba signed the law banning abortion on 9 February 2016. Two months later, the law was enshrined in Abkhazia’s constitution. The original author of the law was Vice Speaker of Parliament Said Kharaziya.

    Supporters of the law talked of demographic fears in Abkhazia and the supposed “sinfulness” of abortion. According to Khazariya, no one has the right to take the life of an “unborn soul”. Before the law was adopted, there were suggestions that the ban should apply only to ethnic Abkhaz people. However parliament dismissed the approach as discriminatory, deciding to ban abortion altogether, even in the event of serious medical complications.

    During the session of the parliament when the amendment was adopted, Said Kharaziya said that “everything was in God’s hands.”

    Not everyone can afford a child

    Our second respondent found herself in a similar situation, she already has three children and is unemployed. Her husband only has irregular work, and their social benefits are barely enough to buy school supplies for the couple’s older children.

    She told OC Media that she couldn’t afford to pay for a trip to Russia to have an abortion. Despite childbirth being free under the Abkhazian law, she will still have to give the doctor a huge bribe.

    “I received 1,000 roubles (£13) in benefits for two children and came to [the territory’s capital] Sukhumi for a scheduled examination with the doctor. This money is not enough. I have to pay 1,500 roubles (£19.60) for the tests alone, and then I have to pay the doctor. So that’s how I’ll spend my whole pregnancy, not knowing if my child is fine, and I also need to save money for childbirth. Until the doctor receives 20,000 roubles (£261), the newborn won’t be released from the hospital. They come up with different problems, like the child has jaundice, but the moment they see the money, the baby is suddenly alright. I already went through it three times,” she exclaims.

    Our third respondent, determined not to have a fourth child, went to Sochi, right across the Abkhazian–Russian border. Even there she encountered difficulties, as a number of Russian doctors were refusing to terminate the pregnancies of Abkhazian women. She was categorically rejected by several doctors, yet in the end, managed to find one who agreed to go through with the procedure. She had to pay about 3,000 roubles (£39).

    “I was told at a clinic in Adler [district of Sochi] that women with Abkhazian passports can’t be given abortions. Some kind of order had come from above. But this one doctor felt sorry for me and sent me to another clinic in Sochi. There I was also coldly received. They said they had also been instructed not to give Abkhazians abortions. They said that they have 700–800 Abkhazians terminating their pregnancy each month. But it was my goal to remove the foetus, and I wasn’t going to stop at anything. Maybe this doctor noticed and felt sorry for me,” she remembers.

    These are the reasons Viktoriya Vorobyova, an obstetrician-gynaecologist at the Sukhumi Maternity Hospital, is categorically against the ban on abortion. She told OC Media that someone who really wants to have an abortion will find a way, while economically disadvantaged and often poorly informed women will continue to give birth, including to sick children.

    “Women order pills for chemical abortion online, they administer them themselves, even in late pregnancy. We have had women with severe complications at our hospital. One patient, after taking such a ‘miracle pill’ had her uterus seam loosen and the foetus fell into the abdominal cavity. We barely saved her,” Vorobyova recalls.

    Two pregnant women have died since the ban was introduced. Their children were saved, but their two large families were left without mothers.

    “These women came to the hospital early in their pregnancy to terminate them, but they were turned away due to the ban. One died from eclampsia — a severe condition that occurs only in pregnant women. The second shouldn’t have give birth either,” the doctor said.
    Meet the women affected by Abkhazia’s abortion ban

    That's by last August, one year after the ban. You may think 2 women known to have died is not much, but Abkhazia only has 250,000 people. Ethnic Abkhazians are about maybe 130,000 souls, out of that. They, like most Caucasian nations, are a clan-based society, hundreds of tight-nit interwoven families. A lot of people would have been mourning these two mothers... And I have read in own research that more women perished since then too, as a result of this idiotic move. Totally avoidable tragedies, all of them.

    This is for the dumbfucks suggesting defunding Planned Parenthood and such...
    Thanks from BDBoop, bmanmcfly and Babba

  2. #52
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    We already, essentially, subsidize people having kids.
    Absolutely! It takes village, or perhaps a state and federal government, to pay for a child.

    A family with three kids, all school age, is getting about $30,000 in public schooling per year, for example, unless they're wealthy enough and committed enough to opt for private school. Those kids also get subsidized lunches, even free ones if they're poor.

    And, there's nothing wrong with that. An educated populace is an asset to the public at large and should be paid for by the public at large. Sure, there are cries of "socialism" from people who don't know the meaning of the word, but still, a first rate public education system should be the goal of every state government.
    Thanks from Babba and Panzareta

  3. #53
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    One thing I will say: do NOT try banning abortions.

    My old homeland did that, under pressure of Russian Orthodox Church: THE ABKHAZIAN CONSTITUTION NOW OFFICIALLY BANS ABORTIONS

    Here's how that worked out:



    Meet the women affected by Abkhazia’s abortion ban

    That's by last August, one year after the ban. You may think 2 women known to have died is not much, but Abkhazia only has 250,000 people. Ethnic Abkhazians are about maybe 130,000 souls, out of that. They, like most Caucasian nations, are a clan-based society, hundreds of tight-nit interwoven families. A lot of people would have been mourning these two mothers... And I have read in own research that more women perished since then too, as a result of this idiotic move. Totally avoidable tragedies, all of them.

    This is for the dumbfucks suggesting defunding Planned Parenthood and such...
    You're right about banning abortions being a far worse outcome...

    Planned parenthood is a different story though.

  4. #54
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    You're right about banning abortions being a far worse outcome...

    Planned parenthood is a different story though.
    Why? And don't start with the crap about selling baby parts. ALL of the abortion providers provide fetal organs and tissues and are reimbursed for the cost of preserving and shipping. Which all PP does.
    Thanks from The Man and Panzareta

  5. #55
    Member Arkady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    US Fertility Rates Have Plummeted Into Uncharted Territory, And Nobody Knows Why




    Is this a problem to be solved, a blessing to be enjoyed, or somewhere in between? What do you think?
    I see it as a blessing. Mankind may well have screwed itself into extinction if not for what appears to be a tendency for both population density and prosperity to depress birth rates. That could well mute the boom-bust population cycle enough to allow us to slow our growing resource demands on the planet and come in for a relatively soft ecological landing. Instead of population growing exponentially until resources are exhausted and there's a mass die-off from disease and famine, we may simply transition to breeding at much lower rates. Now we need to focus on population distribution -- using higher rates of immigration to distribute excess population growth from poorer countries that still suffer from it to richer countries that need a demographic counter-balance for the aging Baby Boomer generation.
    Thanks from Babba and BigLeRoy

  6. #56
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Why? And don't start with the crap about selling baby parts. ALL of the abortion providers provide fetal organs and tissues and are reimbursed for the cost of preserving and shipping. Which all PP does.
    I see you are fully informed and supportive of what they are doing, in spite of the laws against exactly that. Let me Guess, it's ok because they mostly kill black babies?

    I was actually going to start with the "secondary services" That they provide... people have looked into it by calling EVERY office and asking for the secondary services... not one was equipped for anything other than abortion related procedures.
    Thanks from The Man

  7. #57
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    One thing I will say: do NOT try banning abortions.

    My old homeland did that, under pressure of Russian Orthodox Church: THE ABKHAZIAN CONSTITUTION NOW OFFICIALLY BANS ABORTIONS

    Here's how that worked out:



    Meet the women affected by Abkhazia’s abortion ban

    That's by last August, one year after the ban. You may think 2 women known to have died is not much, but Abkhazia only has 250,000 people. Ethnic Abkhazians are about maybe 130,000 souls, out of that. They, like most Caucasian nations, are a clan-based society, hundreds of tight-nit interwoven families. A lot of people would have been mourning these two mothers... And I have read in own research that more women perished since then too, as a result of this idiotic move. Totally avoidable tragedies, all of them.

    This is for the dumbfucks suggesting defunding Planned Parenthood and such...
    Rush Limbaugh said if we really wanted to end abortion, we should just require that all abortions be done with a gun.

    That Rush! He's such a swell guy!
    Thanks from The Man

  8. #58
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Rush Limbaugh said if we really wanted to end abortion, we should just require that all abortions be done with a gun.

    That Rush! He's such a swell guy!
    Wow... he actually said That?

  9. #59
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Wow... he actually said That?
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-a-gun/267279/
    Thanks from The Man and bmanmcfly

  10. #60
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Okay, wow. I wasn't actually doubting it that much but more just shocked that you would actually say it.

    Now, I am pro-life, but I am not so anti-abortion that I would even think to suggest something like that. I mean even if that would be a viable option, that's still horrible to suggest.

    Seriously, the women that are going to go for abortions wouldn't you rather them to get it then to mistreat the child? Rhetorical.

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