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Thread: The Health Care Reform Bill

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    Senior Member Charles Stover's Avatar
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    The Health Care Reform Bill

    I gotta write a paper about it over the weekend. So, if there's anything you know about it that you think is especially important, let me know.

    And facts, not propaganda. I'm sure most of what I'll hear is negative, since everyone on this site is conservative, but hold off on the heresay. I need to know what is factually in the bill and what will be the proven outcome (not just what someone expects or exaggerates). Extreme examples are fine when you're trying to make a point, but I'm writing a paper over the facts of it.

    I hear it has some sort of education reform as well, where they'll be making student loans interest free. Just any little detail like that would be great, if you guys know of any of it. Good or bad.

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    Senior Member taxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Stover View Post
    I gotta write a paper about it over the weekend. So, if there's anything you know about it that you think is especially important, let me know.

    And facts, not propaganda. I'm sure most of what I'll hear is negative, since everyone on this site is conservative, but hold off on the heresay. I need to know what is factually in the bill and what will be the proven outcome (not just what someone expects or exaggerates). Extreme examples are fine when you're trying to make a point, but I'm writing a paper over the facts of it.

    I hear it has some sort of education reform as well, where they'll be making student loans interest free. Just any little detail like that would be great, if you guys know of any of it. Good or bad.
    What would you like to know?

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    You could write about how odd it is that a supposed health care reform bill results in the nationalization of the student loan industry by the federal government.

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    Senior Member taxed's Avatar
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    Also, Charles, what "propaganda" do you think you have heard?

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    Senior Member Charles Stover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxed View Post
    What would you like to know?
    Anything that it changes. For fact. Not some "it will cause a bajillion dollar deficit and the market to crash." That's speculation. I want to know what it says it will do. e.g. put limits on what the health care industry can charge, eliminate pre-existing condition regulations, etc., etc.

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    Senior Member Charles Stover's Avatar
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    Interesting fact I stumbled upon, seeing as how I've been hearing "this bill will destroy small businesses." Small businesses (less than the equivalent of 25 full-time works [e.g. 50 half-time workers], less than $50k annual wages) are not required to provide insurance to their employees at all. If they choose to do so, they will receive a tax credit of 35% (now) to 50% (2014) the cost of the coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by healthreform.gov
    Invests in the health primary care. Health insurance reform will expand and improve programs to increase the number of health care providers, including doctors, nurses, and dentists, especially in rural and other underserved areas.
    I'm curious as to how they plan on doing this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Stover View Post
    Anything that it changes. For fact. Not some "it will cause a bajillion dollar deficit and the market to crash." That's speculation. I want to know what it says it will do. e.g. put limits on what the health care industry can charge, eliminate pre-existing condition regulations, etc., etc.
    What you seem to be saying here is that if the bill doesn't say something, that it is not fair to consider it's probable effects on the economy and society as a whole.

    Having said that it is clear that you are looking to present it in the light of a glory it doesn't hold because you are only willing to look at the partisan claims in the legislation and not the analysis.

    You can get what you are looking for on the DNC web site.

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    Senior Member Charles Stover's Avatar
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    What I'm saying is that I'm looking at what the bill will do, not what the bill might do.

    I've found a few websites: healthreform.gov and whitehouse.gov that discuss this. But they don't seem to have all of what the bill entails, such as the education reform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Stover View Post
    What I'm saying is that I'm looking at what the bill will do, not what the bill might do.

    I've found a few websites: healthreform.gov and whitehouse.gov that discuss this. But they don't seem to have all of what the bill entails, such as the education reform.
    Without analysis all you are doing is repeating the fantasy.

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    Senior Member Charles Stover's Avatar
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    No, what I'm doing is collecting facts before blurring them with speculation, much of which I'm sure is unjust (as is most speculation for any subject).

    Here is what I gathered from the two sites I mentioned:
    Effects on the average consumer
    -- insurance companies cannot place lifetime limits on your medical care (can place annual limits)
    -- insurance companies cannot drop coverage whenever you get sick (except in cases of fraud)
    -- cannot prohibit pre-existing conditions in children (new and existing plans)
    -- provides coverage for preventative services, such as vaccination and colonoscapies
    -- 75% of your premium will be required to be spent on you, not on profits
    -- tens of millions of Americans given tax cuts depending on their income
    -- max cost of your health care is a percentage of your income

    Medicare
    -- medicare benefits will not be cut
    -- new benefits
    -- -- proven preventative services such as cancer screenings at no cost starting 2011
    -- -- substantial reduction in prescription drug prices
    -- -- -- 50% off by 2011
    -- -- -- full coverage by 2020
    -- doctors and nurses of Medicare patients are given incentive to better track the patient's info
    -- -- better coordinating care, tracking prescriptions, preventing duplicate treatment/tests
    -- -- improves quality of care, prevents complications, saves money

    Effects on small businesses
    -- misconception: small business are actually not required to buy insurance
    -- gets tax credits of 35% (now) to 50% (2014) of their coverage costs
    -- prevents price increase
    -- -- employers with one sick worker pay more for every worker
    -- -- when one worker gets sick, coverage increases in price
    -- promotes new employees
    -- -- people working at big business for the insurance
    -- -- people not pursuing entrepreneurship due to needing health insurance
    Now, anyone care to comment as to which parts of this will have an overall derogatory effect on the country and why?
    And to try to keep the comments along a certain line of thought, what reasons would convince someone who thinks that America's socialized education system is a great thing think that this health care reform is a bad thing? (tip: saying "raised taxes are bad" isn't really enough, considering the vast majority of anything done by the government requires raised taxes: roads, schools, war, national and local security, etc.)
    And what parts of this bill are a good thing (tip: saying that 100% of it is negative shows blatant closed-mindedness; at least name one good thing).

    I'm not making any official stance on the bill. My only concern, as I briefly mentioned in another topic, is offering health care to minors and perhaps some laws regulating what the companies can and cannot do (e.g. the law that this bill covers that would prevent health care companies from dropping users when they get sick). I don't too much care for the idea of offering it to adults, so don't take the position that you have to persuade me one way or the other.

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