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  1. #31
    Swamper chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    That bill will clearly have trouble.
    I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone.

  2. #32
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone.
    Why?

  3. #33
    Swamper chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Why?
    Law and order spin. Criminals such as Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Joe Arpaio are idolized by party affiliation while heroes like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden are imprisoned or hunted like animals. Whenever both political parties come together and call for the head of a whistleblower, I instantly suspect that whistleblower selflessly risked their career and their freedom for the good of the country.

    More proof of my upside down empire theory is why.
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  4. #34
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    Law and order spin. Criminals such as Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Joe Arpaio are idolized by party affiliation while heroes like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden are imprisoned or hunted like animals. Whenever both political parties come together and call for the head of a whistleblower, I instantly suspect that whistleblower selflessly risked their career and their freedom for the good of the country.

    More proof of my upside down empire theory is why.
    Ah I get it. Whats interesting is if you look at various polling or just generally bring it up in conversation, people have lost faith in all the "mainstream" factions. People are disgruntled. We elect one party and then the other, but the overall metrics remain the same and income inequality keeps getting worse. At what point do people figure something else has to happen? Politics in particular is now like a sporting event with two teams and die hard fans. If you deviate at all, you are blacklisted. Trump attempted at the very least to open the dialogue to this. Even Michael Moore admits that's in part why he won, he was considered that populist outsider who some figured "lets burn it all down and start over." They didn't really care what he stood for and what he said he was just that non establishment figure outside of politics. At some point, and maybe it wont be right away, a new generation will come forward and say enough things have to change. The status quo, and look the other way when its "my" party isn't going to work.
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  5. #35
    Veteran Member highway234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    Law and order spin. Criminals such as Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Joe Arpaio are idolized by party affiliation while heroes like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden are imprisoned or hunted like animals. Whenever both political parties come together and call for the head of a whistleblower, I instantly suspect that whistleblower selflessly risked their career and their freedom for the good of the country.

    More proof of my upside down empire theory is why.
    You're not alone. WaPo's CIA connections through Jeff Bazos is one of my signature issues. The newspapers of note have a pretty long recent history of pushing imperial war narratives--remember how Judith Miller and the NY times were instrumental in pushing the 2002-03 WMDs-in-Iraq hoax? And what the NY Times did to Chris Hedges at around the same time?

    This Democrat/Republican, left/right debate has become basically shambolic, with the real powerbrokers using both parties to achieve their desired aims. But the two-party duopoly is so entrenched that "establishment loyalists"--a real useful term i picked up from caitlin johnstone; if you like jimmy dore, you might also find johnstone of interest--just keep trying to make it ideologically meaningful to argue Democrat vs. Republican. To me that's conspicuously to miss the point, but I think it hasn't sunk in, and Bajisima, who i think has always been perceptive about this process as well, might be right that it'll fall to the next generation to see through it in a meaningful way.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Ah I get it. Whats interesting is if you look at various polling or just generally bring it up in conversation, people have lost faith in all the "mainstream" factions. People are disgruntled. We elect one party and then the other, but the overall metrics remain the same and income inequality keeps getting worse. At what point do people figure something else has to happen? Politics in particular is now like a sporting event with two teams and die hard fans. If you deviate at all, you are blacklisted. Trump attempted at the very least to open the dialogue to this. Even Michael Moore admits that's in part why he won, he was considered that populist outsider who some figured "lets burn it all down and start over." They didn't really care what he stood for and what he said he was just that non establishment figure outside of politics. At some point, and maybe it wont be right away, a new generation will come forward and say enough things have to change. The status quo, and look the other way when its "my" party isn't going to work.
    I get where the scorched earth progressives are coming from but they lost focus on the open supreme court seat and for the U.S. to catch up with the rest of the world by electing a woman president. I have 4 sisters and 2 of them refuse to vote for Hillary. I don't get it, it seems backwards to me.

    I was 100% sure that Hillary was going to be the next president simply because women are half the population. I was convinced my sisters would change their mind when they were alone in the voting booth.
    Last edited by chaos; 29th August 2017 at 04:07 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by highway234 View Post
    You're not alone. WaPo's CIA connections through Jeff Bazos is one of my signature issues. The newspapers of note have a pretty long recent history of pushing imperial war narratives--remember how Judith Miller and the NY times were instrumental in pushing the 2002-03 WMDs-in-Iraq hoax? And what the NY Times did to Chris Hedges at around the same time?

    This Democrat/Republican, left/right debate has become basically shambolic, with the real powerbrokers using both parties to achieve their desired aims. But the two-party duopoly is so entrenched that "establishment loyalists"--a real useful term i picked up from caitlin johnstone; if you like jimmy dore, you might also find johnstone of interest--just keep trying to make it ideologically meaningful to argue Democrat vs. Republican. To me that's conspicuously to miss the point, but I think it hasn't sunk in, and Bajisima, who i think has always been perceptive about this process as well, might be right that it'll fall to the next generation to see through it in a meaningful way.
    Anyone who knows who Judith Miller and Chris Hedges are is alright with me. I had to stop watching Hedges because he made me want to hit the streets and join the protests. I gave all that up 10 years ago when militarized police broke my tailbone. I'm not going back into a war without the proper tools.

  8. #38
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    I get where the scorched earth progressives are coming from but they lost focus on the open supreme court seat and for the U.S. to catch up with the rest of the world by electing a woman president. I have 4 sisters and 2 of them refuse to vote for Hillary. I don't get it, it seems backwards to me.

    I was 100% sure that Hillary was going to be the next president simply because women are half the population. I was convinced my sisters would change their mind when they were alone in the voting booth.
    Honestly women are the most critical of other women. Women also don't prefer other women as bosses. Not sure the whys behind it but that's what stats claim. So I suppose then it makes some sense that they recoil against a woman as president. It will happen I think when its right. If you look at other countries it just organically happened. Merkel is the leader of Germany not because she ran as a woman but because people preferred her. Its a fine line and of course people here will approach it differently because its never happened but the US seems to do a lot more identity politics than other countries seem to, for others it comes naturally, for the US it often seems pushed or hurried.


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgen.../#55e314ae2ebb
    Female bosses: Why do women tear down other women at work?
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Honestly women are the most critical of other women. Women also don't prefer other women as bosses. Not sure the whys behind it but that's what stats claim. So I suppose then it makes some sense that they recoil against a woman as president. It will happen I think when its right. If you look at other countries it just organically happened. Merkel is the leader of Germany not because she ran as a woman but because people preferred her. Its a fine line and of course people here will approach it differently because its never happened but the US seems to do a lot more identity politics than other countries seem to, for others it comes naturally, for the US it often seems pushed or hurried.
    When I was young and naive I thought there would be less war with a woman (mother) president. I was clueless about Americans needing their leaders to be tough on everything.

    The best lawyer I ever had was a woman. She didn't treat me like criminal, she simply made it clear that she wouldn't take my case unless she was sure that I was innocent. I like that type of honesty, it's something I don't expect from all the shyster lawyers that will do anything for a buck.

    My doctor is also a woman and she's the best. I feel sorry for her assistant because she is so demanding and expects everyone to perform up to her standards.
    Thanks from bajisima and allegoricalfact

  10. #40
    Scucca Ęthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    So I suppose then it makes some sense that they recoil against a woman as president.
    The female vote gave us Thatcher! They're still saying sorry, with a significant shift leftwards since.
    Thanks from allegoricalfact

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