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Thread: Iowa Judge Fucks Up Freedom of the Press

  1. #31
    Member Robert Urbanek's Avatar
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    So what happens if the Des Moines Register passes the information on to another source that releases the information outside of Iowa? What can the court do?
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  2. #32
    Senior Member NeoVsMatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Urbanek View Post
    So what happens if the Des Moines Register passes the information on to another source that releases the information outside of Iowa? What can the court do?
    They lock up the guys responsible.
    Just what we do with gun violence... wait for the dead kids, lock up the shooter, if still alive. Do NOT prevent the shooting, it's in the constitution.

    Does it sting, or are you ok ?
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  3. #33
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Urbanek View Post
    So what happens if the Des Moines Register passes the information on to another source that releases the information outside of Iowa? What can the court do?
    Contempt. Someone at the Des Moines Register may be put in jail, probably the editor in your hypothetical.

    (This is only my opinion. I haven't researched the question.)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I think Gore's lawsuit was fucking treason.
    Really? Is that even possible, by definition?

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Really? Is that even possible, by definition?
    I was using that word in the non-constitutional sense. Gore betrayed the country. He put his lust for power ahead of the welfare of the U.S.

    Actual, criminal treason is entirely different and none of those elements of that crime can be attributed to Gore.

    But he proved he was unfit to be president, absolutely. I think it's very important that he lost.

    Dubya was a shitty president but I am 100% convinced, he would never have sued to recount, if Gore had won.
    Last edited by Madeline; 28th February 2018 at 10:32 PM.

  6. #36
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Gore ... put his lust for power ahead of the welfare of the U.S.
    Even though Bush's Florida campaign co-chair was in charge of counting the votes ... ?
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  7. #37
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Even though Bush's Florida campaign co-chair was in charge of counting the votes ... ?
    Yes. Gore had another lawsuit, in another state, readied to file and there was heavy betting in the last day or two of this kerfuffle as to whether he would file it.

    What that proves to my satisfaction is, Gore had no care about "the voters rights" in Florida. We had just had the misfortune of having the single best controversy for his purposes.

    I also am 100% convinced, Gore had these lawsuits underway weeks before the election.

    I was haunting the Florida Supreme Court building a lot in the days after the election over a death penalty case, and so I had great opportunities to gossip, including a federal judge.

    We all thought Gore was trying to replace voting with suing, but admittedly, we were all Republicans, so who knows.

    Maybe he's a massive patriot who got really shitty advice.

    But I don't think so.......

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I was using that word in the non-constitutional sense. Gore betrayed the country. He put his lust for power ahead of the welfare of the U.S.
    Sorry, but I have a hard time with this. I'm pretty sure that Gore (and many if not most people) who voted for Gore thought that his being in power rather than the other guy WAS in the national interest. Politics is a competitive activity. You're suggesting, somehow, that it's in some way illegitimate for a politician to compete. Last time I checked, lawsuits were part of the way we deal with things in the US--the whole "rule of law" thing. You appear to suggest that Gore's attempt at finding judicial relief (nor not choosing to) is tantamount to armed rebellion. That really WOULD be treasonous. I don't see how following the laws of the nation in seeking the best outcome possible for one's self and one's followers is criminal--or even inappropriate.

    What should have occurred after Bush v Gore was a reevaluation of the timelines involved for after-voting election activity. There was a December deadline for the electoral college to meet, for example, which necessitated a decision and made a recount impractical. We've moved the date of the inauguration up (by two months, from March to January) because of political realities discovered in the 1930's. We should reevaluate our electoral college procedures in light of the 2000 election. We didn't do that. We didn't even seriously consider it. Why not?
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  9. #39
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Sorry, but I have a hard time with this. I'm pretty sure that Gore (and many if not most people) who voted for Gore thought that his being in power rather than the other guy WAS in the national interest. Politics is a competitive activity. You're suggesting, somehow, that it's in some way illegitimate for a politician to compete. Last time I checked, lawsuits were part of the way we deal with things in the US--the whole "rule of law" thing. You appear to suggest that Gore's attempt at finding judicial relief (nor not choosing to) is tantamount to armed rebellion. That really WOULD be treasonous. I don't see how following the laws of the nation in seeking the best outcome possible for one's self and one's followers is criminal--or even inappropriate.
    Sounds a lot like the rationale Nixon used to justify his conduct before the 1968 election. A fixed belief that he was SO GREAT for America, anything he had to do to win was warranted.

    What should have occurred after Bush v Gore was a reevaluation of the timelines involved for after-voting election activity. There was a December deadline for the electoral college to meet, for example, which necessitated a decision and made a recount impractical. We've moved the date of the inauguration up (by two months, from March to January) because of political realities discovered in the 1930's. We should reevaluate our electoral college procedures in light of the 2000 election. We didn't do that. We didn't even seriously consider it. Why not?
    I like the electoral college, but no matter. We should have at least modernized voting! Why are we still using WWII era technology?

    Etc.

    (Presumably, we are using crappy voting machines because some "friend of government" profits off that, or in case anyone else wants to try to Gore-coup us.)
    Last edited by Madeline; 1st March 2018 at 07:30 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Sounds a lot like the rationale Nixon used to justify his conduct before the 1968 election. A fixed belief that he was SO GREAT for America, anything he had to do to win was warranted.
    Did he break the law at that time? Sure, his dirty tricks were nasty, but they became SOP after that. You think Nixon was the only one ever to do oppo research? Why single out Gore for something every pol does?

    Actually, you're suggesting Gore should have acted MORE like Nixon. If you recall, there were serious questions about voting in states Kennedy won narrowly, but Nixon refused to pursue recounts, etc. Some credited him for that, but I'll bet it had something to do with his losing the popular vote--something that didn't happen with Gore, you'll also recall.



    I like the electoral college, but no matter. We should have at least modernized voting! Why are we still using WWII era technology?
    WWII era technology is BETTER than the all-electronic methods used in some states today.

    Etc.

    (Presumably, we are using crappy voting machines because some "friend of government" profits off that, or in case anyone else wants to try to Gore-coup us.)
    Or because Americans want their election returns almost instantaneously. We've chosen exciting election nights over verifiable accuracy.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

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