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Thread: Fighting Fake News Is Not the Solution

  1. #41
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    Babba might want to use the search engine of her choice and check out the popularity of the tax cut bill. As for Obamacare, the numbers seem to follow the intent of the law. The number getting subsidized exceeds the number getting screwed. Eventually, those with subsidized programs will realize they're getting screwed, too.

    So, file this Dartmouth study under fake news.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    I didn't say they were. There's been no fiscally responsible candidate from any party in recent elections. But there have been candidates from both who campaign as being fiscally responsible and that's what voters evaluate them on.
    I'd even ask what "fiscally conservative" means when people identify that way. Does it mean they believe in balanced budgets? Low taxes? Less in social services? Less in "foreign aid?" Less in support of science research? Lesson support of education? It doesn't ever appear to mean we should spend less on the military. I'm not sure the term "fiscally conservative" has any specific meaning anymore, but it sure sounds good when you say it to a pollster.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    So how in the hell have we ended up with Trump as president and a majority Republican Congress? Gerrymandering is one reason. But that doesn't explain it all. Maybe because Democrats do suck in some important ways. An important way is that they're terrible at messaging.
    Two reasons.

    1) His positions on immigration were aligned to a large number of under-served voters. And when he began to catch on with those voters, the left responded by trying to invalidate the voters. A majorly stupid move.

    2) Trump's tendency to try and beat up the established media made him a folk hero with every person (and there are many) who perceive that the left leaning press is aligned to so many institutions ( academia, Hollywood, Broadway, TV, the Democrat party) that somebody just had to oppose the hegemony. Like #1, the voters who feel this way have been ignored as though they don't exist. They are treated as invalid voters. The media they like is treated as invalid. Too much slanted propaganda aligned to too many institutions makes an under-recognized voting block do crazy things.

    Presenting the 2016 brains of the Democrat party.

    Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.jpg
    Last edited by kmiller1610; 28th March 2018 at 01:46 AM.
    Thanks from John T Ford

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I'd even ask what "fiscally conservative" means when people identify that way. Does it mean they believe in balanced budgets? Low taxes? Less in social services? Less in "foreign aid?" Less in support of science research? Lesson support of education? It doesn't ever appear to mean we should spend less on the military. I'm not sure the term "fiscally conservative" has any specific meaning anymore, but it sure sounds good when you say it to a pollster.
    Obama ran on being fiscally conservative in 2008. He promised to pay for every penny of the programs he proposed. He promised to go through the federal budget line by line and get rid of programs.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    What if the world was wrong, except trump supporters?
    That would just be another one of your conspiracy theories.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  6. #46
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    This is an interesting article about a couple of studies that show that most people do know the difference between real and fake news.
    That would suggest, though, that many people deliberately choose to go with fake news, essentially lying to themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    So how in the hell have we ended up with Trump as president and a majority Republican Congress? Gerrymandering is one reason. But that doesn't explain it all.
    Trump as president and a Republican Senate would not be explainable by gerrymandering, as electors are chosen based on popular vote by state rather than Congressional District. The gerrymandering problem is only attributable to the House of Representatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Maybe because Democrats do suck in some important ways. An important way is that they're terrible at messaging.
    To say the least. It might even be more accurate that the Democratic Party has trouble articulating a coherent platform, which would explain the messaging. It is difficult to communicate a message when you have not identified what it is one wishes to communicate - though obviously this does not bother the Trump administration, which is deliberately incoherent to the joy of his supporters.
    Thanks from Babba

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    [M]ost people just don't have the time or the inclination to check out the specifics of what a candidate is offering.
    Most people do not take the time. They would rather watch mind-rotting reality shows on TV (including on the news).

    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I've seen the results of abrupt change and in most cases, it ain't pretty. I have an understanding of how politics works and I know it's mostly compromise. That's the art of politics.
    Of course. Sometimes abrupt change is necessary, though, and should be done. But as the case with legislation and budgeting, compromise is the only practical solution - one that people have eschewed, as demonstrated by the actions of their elected officials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    The Republicans don't even acknowledge the detrimental effects of so much of that legislation.
    Indeed, the Republicans have successfully argued that the best way to help poor people is to give more money to rich people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    And you're 100% right about so many Trump supporters not being exposed to people different from themselves.
    Exactly. The less cosmopolitan a community, the less tolerant that community will be of someone who would not fit in it.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeRain View Post
    Thatís not true. More votes are cast for democrats than republicans meaning more democrats vote. Iíll provide a link later
    That is, however, a more recent phenomenon.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    [T]he busier a person's daily life gets, the less time they have to research a candidate.
    Part of it is people's desire to watch TV (for entertainment) outweighing their desire to research candidates, as I indicated in an earlier post. But people who have to work multiple jobs just to pay the expenses of daily life really do not have time to do that research, which is attributable to Republican policies over the last 40 years or so. It used to be that a single-income family could still afford to take care of the kids, buy a house and a car, &c., without working more than 40 hours per week. Now, oftentimes double- or more income families cannot even pay the bills.
    Thanks from boontito and Blues63

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Not what I said, I expressed the possibility that it was the case, and it must be accepted as equally as all before you start trying to figure out which parts are objectively true between positions.
    Not all "possibilities" are equally true from the start.

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