Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 88
Thanks Tree45Thanks

Thread: SC Deputy Sheriff Fucks Up 1st Amendment

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    51,355
    Thanks
    29713

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Here's the South Carolina law regarding disorderly conduct, the charge leveled against this woman: https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/...code_16-17-530

    I'm pretty sure this law is typical of others enacted in all 50 states. What you appear to be suggesting is that disorderly conduct laws are unconstitutional. Since we've had laws like this for centuries, surely their constitutionality is well-established.
    That law is unconstitutional. Disturbing the peace cannot possibly be committed if there is no one (other than the cop) to observe the conduct.

    And "swearing" cannot be made a criminal act, in every instance. It is protected free speech.

    Disturbing the peace is like resisting arrest -- cops use it as a catch-all to bully any citizen whose behavior gets up their noses. But being annoying is not a crime without MORE.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    24,551
    Thanks
    6750

    From
    Great State of Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    That could be, which is why I said "my comments are based on the facts as reported", remember? Yes, parents and fans at children's sporting events can become so abusive, they should be removed.

    But as reported, it did not sound to me as if this lady had done.
    I saw your disclaimer and I acknowledge it.

    That's why I posted this story is BS, IMHO of course.

    Or better said, it stinks of fake news to me.

    It's not a case about the 1st Amendment.

    Sounds more like a case of an unruly foul-mouth out of control parent who was legitimately arrested for disorderly conduct.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    51,355
    Thanks
    29713

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    I saw your disclaimer and I acknowledge it.

    That's why I posted this story is BS, IMHO of course.

    Or better said, it stinks of fake news to me.

    It's not a case about the 1st Amendment.

    Sounds more like a case of an unruly foul-mouth out of control parent who was legitimately arrested for disorderly conduct.
    The news is real, as in, the arrest occurred.

    What interpretation you and I place on that news is different, but simply because you feel I am wrong-ish, doesn't make the underlying hard facts any different.

    Here is the sheriff's department website:

    Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office | Spartanburg County SC

    And here is Sonya Ricketts' mug shot, listed with all the other recent bookings:

    Booking Search : Spartanburg Sheriff

  4. #24
    quichierbichen
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    61,338
    Thanks
    33188

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    If people are allowed to pray at HS games, then I should be allowed to cus. The state can not make a moral judgement on moral speech at school.

    We have to be consistent. If Prayer is allowed, then any speech should be.
    I think if someone started to pray, loudly and in a manner that kept others from enjoying the game, that would be prohibited too. I can't imagine them letting someone shout prayers during the conduct of a sporting event, even in South Carolina.

    I actually believe a school has a right to limit speech. I believe when the Supreme Court ruled no right is absolute. No one would say that I have the right to enter into someone's Church and preach my version of the Bible...uninvited.

    But If we claim that it's first amendment 24/4 where ever...when ever, then that has to be for all speech.

    In a Day care, a Church, a hospital or a courtroom.
    Regulating speech based on time, place, and manner is a normal part of the law.
    Thanks from Madeline

  5. #25
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    24,551
    Thanks
    6750

    From
    Great State of Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The news is real, as in, the arrest occurred.

    What interpretation you and I place on that news is different, but simply because you feel I am wrong-ish, doesn't make the underlying hard facts any different.

    Here is the sheriff's department website:

    Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office | Spartanburg County SC

    And here is Sonya Ricketts' mug shot, listed with all the other recent bookings:

    Booking Search : Spartanburg Sheriff
    It's not the fact that the arrest occurred that makes it fake news.

    It's the spin that makes it out that she was arrested for exercising her free speech rights that makes it fake.

    This is something that so many miss about fake news.

    Fake news often times takes a factual event and then spins it into something it is not.

    This also constitutes fake news.

  6. #26
    quichierbichen
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    61,338
    Thanks
    33188

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    That law is unconstitutional. Disturbing the peace cannot possibly be committed if there is no one (other than the cop) to observe the conduct.
    Can you cite a precedent?

    And "swearing" cannot be made a criminal act, in every instance. It is protected free speech.

    Disturbing the peace is like resisting arrest -- cops use it as a catch-all to bully any citizen whose behavior gets up their noses. But being annoying is not a crime without MORE.
    I don't know. I think the police have to be given some discretion in their enforcement of the law. Swearing at a cop has never been a good idea. I don't think there are many Americans who would object to such enforcement, and I can't imagine any American parent who wouldn't teach their kids the dangers of such conduct.

    So how would you craft a disorderly conduct law so as to pass constitutional muster, in your view?
    Thanks from John T Ford and Madeline

  7. #27
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    44,018
    Thanks
    25547

    From
    Wisconsin
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I think if someone started to pray, loudly and in a manner that kept others from enjoying the game, that would be prohibited too. I can't imagine them letting someone shout prayers during the conduct of a sporting event, even in South Carolina.

    Regulating speech based on time, place, and manner is a normal part of the law.


    Exactly. If you had one of those street corner preachers hollering that the pitcher needed to repent, he'd probably also be asked to leave.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    51,355
    Thanks
    29713

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    But if they are in keeping with local disorderly conduct laws, do patrons really need to be reminded of the law? Isn't the law enforceable even if they aren't directly posted? I mean...we have laws against stealing, but does that mean every business needs to post copies of such laws at the door to see a thief prosecuted?
    It does IF there are special rules for certain public spaces. What time the park closes, e.g. You cannot be arrested for remaining in the park after 11 pm (or whatnot) if they have adopted a local ordinance, but failed to erect any signs.

    SC could criminalize anyone shouting at a children's sporting event, but they'd need signs to make that law enforceable. Obviously, citizens could still legally shout at the children on any other public space, such as a public sidewalk; the rule only applies in a sports facility.

    Ergo, IMO, signs would be required.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    51,355
    Thanks
    29713

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Well I'm with you in principle. Unfortunately the reality is that these police officers can do these things legally - because they do them every day without consequence and with the full blessing of the legal system and courts.

    The situation you describe in your OP happens frequently all the time - and I suspect this young woman's suit will go nowhere.
    Same here. We have bad cops, backed up by bad courts and judges. Few people want to make a Supreme Court case out of a little unpleasantness.....but it grinds everyone down,

    Especially those who are poor and not white.

  10. #30
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    51,355
    Thanks
    29713

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    If people are allowed to pray at HS games, then I should be allowed to cus. The state can not make a moral judgement on moral speech at school.

    We have to be consistent. If Prayer is allowed, then any speech should be.

    I actually believe a school has a right to limit speech. I believe when the Supreme Court ruled no right is absolute. No one would say that I have the right to enter into someone's Church and preach my version of the Bible...uninvited.

    But If we claim that it's first amendment 24/4 where ever...when ever, then that has to be for all speech.

    In a Day care, a Church, a hospital or a courtroom.
    The "no swearing " laws were predicated on obscenity, back when community standards dictated what was obscene. Those arguments just aren't feasible anymore, thanks to the internet, etc.

    In theory, the 1st amendment still does not protect obscene speech and images. But in reality, nothing is obscene anymore other than child porn.

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 17th September 2016, 01:49 AM
  2. Florida sheriff deputy flees to Russia, asks for asylum
    By The Man in forum Current Events
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 13th April 2016, 12:47 AM
  3. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 31st August 2015, 07:38 AM
  4. Replies: 269
    Last Post: 13th August 2015, 06:35 AM
  5. Sheriff's deputy, killed six teens
    By patriotgrl in forum Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10th October 2007, 06:20 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed