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Thread: SC Deputy Sheriff Fucks Up 1st Amendment

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    By the theater owner, not by the government. Ticket holders are that business's invitees, and their invitations can be conditional, and revoked.

    The government's right to suppress "disruptive" speech in public places needs very different analysis.
    What if the disruptive party refuses to leave? Private police force? Bouncers? And would you complain about them 'violating' the disruptive offenders' 1A rights? What if they had to get physical? would they be subject to assault charges? Civil liability for any injury?

    Why do citizens pay taxes for law enforcement and justice systems if they can't expect their rights to life, liberty and pursuits of happiness to be acknowledged and protected?
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  2. #82
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    That happens a lot here. The cop puts his hands on the citizen, the citizen jerks back, and viola'!

    "Resisting arrest".
    That does not sound like "resisting arrest" in any jurisdiction, because the cop putting his hands on someone is not an "arrest." I would imagine that one could be beat at trial, if not disposed of through a pre-trial motion.
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  3. #83
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    No minor at a school sporting event should be subjected to abusive language.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Why not?
    Other than involving a political figure, how is it political? In other words, tell me what is the political message underlying that utterance.

    If that's political speech, then any utterance mentioning a political figure is protected political speech.

    "Donald Trump is setting fire to the theater! Fire! Fire!"

  5. #85
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    What if the disruptive party refuses to leave? Private police force? Bouncers? And would you complain about them 'violating' the disruptive offenders' 1A rights? What if they had to get physical? would they be subject to assault charges? Civil liability for any injury?

    Why do citizens pay taxes for law enforcement and justice systems if they can't expect their rights to life, liberty and pursuits of happiness to be acknowledged and protected?
    Still a dispute over private property and the contract rights of ticket holders.

    Still not (exactly) a 1st amendment issue, because it is not about the government's power to regulate speech among citizens in a public space.

  6. #86
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That does not sound like "resisting arrest" in any jurisdiction, because the cop putting his hands on someone is not an "arrest." I would imagine that one could be beat at trial, if not disposed of through a pre-trial motion.
    That was the nature of the "arrests" made at the first Cleveland BLM protest. They were kept in jail all weekend, and then had the charges dismissed.

    I think they should have sued for civil rights violations, but the city has since been much better about responding the to the "threat of disorder" whenever they march, etc. Had the ACLU of Ohio all excited for awhile, though.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Still a dispute over private property and the contract rights of ticket holders.

    Still not (exactly) a 1st amendment issue, because it is not about the government's power to regulate speech among citizens in a public space.
    If one has secured a license to operate a business, they've presumably consented to accommodate the public, effectively making their business a public space (or so the argument goes). Should they (the theater business owner, in this case) be forced to assume the additional expense (on top of their business, sales, income and property taxes) of hiring a private police force/bouncers to ensure their patrons' experience won't be ruined by the 'free speech rights' of disruptive lunatics? Or should they expect citizen initiated 'disorderly conduct' laws, and those the citizenry have charged with enforcing them, to be included in the taxes they pay?
    Last edited by webrockk; 11th June 2017 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #88
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    If one has secured a license to operate a business, they've presumably consented to accommodate the public, effectively making their business a public space (or so the argument goes). Should they (the theater business owner, in this case) be forced to assume the additional expense (on top of their business, sales, income and property taxes) of hiring a private police force/bouncers to ensure their patrons' experience won't be ruined by the 'free speech rights' of disruptive lunatics? Or should they expect citizen initiated 'disorderly conduct' laws, and those the citizenry have charged with enforcing them, to be included in the taxes they pay?
    Depends. If their business is likely to attract troublemakers, then yes. They are required to furnish security, at their own expense.

    Banks, race tracks, supermarkets, bars, hotels, etc.

    This is why the cops do not guard Brinks vans.

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