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Thread: The Worst Death Sentence EVER?

  1. #11
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    IMO, the death penalty serves a legitimate social purpose: eliminating from our society, including our prison populations, the "worst of the worst". PLENTY of Americans are given LWOP or even lower sentences for crimes that are far more heinous than the one Tharpe committed.

    Even in Georgia.

    And those choices are far too heavily dictated by the killer's race.
    Seems in this case it is determined by the fact that he was simply proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Do you have evidence to challenge that verdict? Does anyone?

    Your argument now seems to be that his crime was not the most heinous rape/murder we have seen.

    Ok but that statement creates some requirements. Such as precisely what DOES constitute the most heinous rape /murder? And how do we judge the severity of one such crime compared to another?

    Other than the one juror out of 12 you have cited how do we know that it was determined by his race as opposed to the simple evidence against him?

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Murder and rape and people want this piece of shit alive?
    That is not the point, Spooky. Try reading the Op again.

    I want him to be punished, but executing him seems unjustly harsh to me. And it is obvious Tharpe is being executed not for what he did, but because he is black and poor and mentally disabled.
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  3. #13
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Bullshit. You and I have not debated the death penalty before that I can recall, but you have never advocated for a system in which EVERYONE convicted of 1st degree murder MUST be executed. I doubt that you are doing so now.

    Although, if you were, you would at least be advocating for a system that is much more fair than the one we have now.
    Are you arguing about the system or this particular execution?

  4. #14
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    That is not the point, Spooky. Try reading the Op again.

    I want him to be punished, but executing him seems unjustly harsh to me. And it is obvious Tharpe is being executed not for what he did, but because he is black and poor and mentally disabled.
    That is in no way obvious it is strictly your individual opinion.
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  5. #15
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupnazi View Post
    Seems in this case it is determined by the fact that he was simply proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Do you have evidence to challenge that verdict? Does anyone?

    Your argument now seems to be that his crime was not the most heinous rape/murder we have seen.

    Ok but that statement creates some requirements. Such as precisely what DOES constitute the most heinous rape /murder? And how do we judge the severity of one such crime compared to another?

    Other than the one juror out of 12 you have cited how do we know that it was determined by his race as opposed to the simple evidence against him?
    Tharpe is guilty, no doubt about that. But he is not being executed because he killed his sister in law.

    He is being executed because he is black and poor and mentally disabled. We know this because we have the empirical data to prove, had none of these factors been in play, he would have been sentenced to life in prison.

    Imposing the death sentence in Georgia is a two-step process, for the jury. The verdict on the crime, guilty, is one step. The imposition of the death penalty is a second jury proceeding. It must be reached by a unanimous jury decision; the presence of ONE die-hard racist on Tharpe's jury means, as the SCOTUS has already found, that the sentence is inherently flawed and cannot be carried out.

    It is contrary to US law to execute Tharpe on Tuesday -- and yet that will very likely happen.

  6. #16
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Tharpe is guilty, no doubt about that. But he is not being executed because he killed his sister in law.

    He is being executed because he is black and poor and mentally disabled. We know this because we have the empirical data to prove, had none of these factors been in play, he would have been sentenced to life in prison.

    Imposing the death sentence in Georgia is a two-step process, for the jury. The verdict on the crime, guilty, is one step. The imposition of the death penalty is a second jury proceeding. It must be reached by a unanimous jury decision; the presence of ONE die-hard racist on Tharpe's jury means, as the SCOTUS has already found, that the sentence is inherently flawed and cannot be carried out.

    It is contrary to US law to execute Tharpe on Tuesday -- and yet that will very likely happen.
    I have seen no such data presented and the there is no evidence to support your conclusion.

    It is not contrary to US law and you have yet to cite a law which forbids his execution.

    You have not cited a USSC decision supporting your claim that it is flawed.

    In the end yes he is being executed for a capital crime and nothing more.
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  7. #17
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupnazi View Post
    I have seen no such data presented and the there is no evidence to support your conclusion.

    It is not contrary to US law and you have yet to cite a law which forbids his execution.

    You have not cited a USSC decision supporting your claim that it is flawed.

    In the end yes he is being executed for a capital crime and nothing more.
    Everything you claim I have not shown is shown in the Op.

  8. #18
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    The vast majority of people in the United States have I.Q.s between 80 and 120, with an I.Q. of 100 considered average. To be diagnosed as having mental retardation, a person must have an I.Q. below 70-75, i.e. significantly below average.

    There is no way this man's mental disability was of such that he didn't know that committing 1st degree premeditated murder was wrong.

    Being poor is also no excuse.

    So all you have left is the race card.

  9. #19
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Everything you claim I have not shown is shown in the Op.
    No it is not in fact.

    None of the links prove or support your clams

  10. #20
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, the state of Georgia will execute Keith Tharpe, unless the SCOTUS or the governor of the state of Georgia intervenes.

    Here are some of the aspects of this case that upset me the most:

    1. Tharpe's jury included at least one man who is a notorious racist. Tharpe, who is black, was sentenced to death by a unanimous jury. Among the jurors was a white man named Barney Gattie, who gave Tharpe's appeals lawyer an affidavit in which he said, among other things, that he questioned whether black people have souls. This clearly violated Tharpe's 6th amendment right to an impartial jury, and yet has not been the basis of a successful appeal to any Georgia state court or to the federal court for the 11th district.

    The SCOTUS is not likely to save Tharpe's life. In 2016, it permitted the execution of Kenneth Fults, in which one juror deciding that case, Thomas Buffington, said in a sworn 2005 affidavit: “I don’t know if he [Kenneth Fults] killed anybody,” but the death penalty is “what that ****** deserved.” He was executed nonetheless.

    Seems as if the SCOTUS has decided that the 6th amendment does not protect black Americans.

    2. Tharpe was so poor, he had trouble avoiding starvation as a child. His trial lawyer is described by Time magazine as "horrifyingly uninformed and unconcerned legal representation".

    3. Tharpe is intellectually disabled, with an IQ of only 74. This places him in the lowest 1% of American adults, arrayed by IQ. Since the 2002 SCOTUS decision Atkins v. Virginia, the states no longer have the power to execute the mentally disabled, but the description of such people is those with an IQ of 70 and below.

    Tharpe, who is so intellectually challenged that independent living is not viable, cannot be protected with other mentally disabled people because some scientist or doctor or social worker ranked him 4 points above the cut off for safety.

    HITH is this a defensible choice, in any civilized society?

    4. On no metric is the murder Tharpe was convicted of among "the worst of the worst". After repeatedly harassing his ex-wife and her family, on September 25, 1990, he used his car to force the vehicle she was traveling in off the road. He shot the driver, his sister-in-law, to death, then kidnapped and raped his ex-wife. The murder was death-qualified under Georgia law, but we all know, this is not an especially heinous killing.

    5. Georgia had the second-most recorded lynchings in American history, and has had a strikingly terrible record of executing black Americans since WW II.



    The Georgia State Supreme Court opinion affirming Tharpe's death sentence illustrates just how far the state is permitted to go in pursuing the execution of a black defendant for racist reasons.

    Keith Leroy Tharpe | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

    Last year, SCOTUS decided that a death sentence may be attacked on the grounds that the jury deliberations were tainted by racism. Pena-Rodriguez v. Colorado, 2016. But it is difficult to reconcile the Pena-Rodriguez opinion with the SCOTUS' decision to refuse to hear the appeal on behalf of Kenneth Fults.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...eorgia/477969/



    A Black Man Convicted By a Racist Juror Will Be Executed | Time.com

    Keith Tharpe is not about to be executed because of the murder he committed. He is about to be executed because his crime occurred in Georgia, and he is black, poor and mentally disabled. In 1997, SCOTUS ruled that the death penalty must not be applied on the grounds of who the defendant is, rather than what he has done. Buck v. Texas, 1997.

    Yet no one is following this rule -- not even the SCOTUS itself. This despicable outcome is so unjust and so revolting, there cannot be a defender of it by anyone who accepts at least rudimentary human rights should be secured to every American by their government.

    What shocks our conscience, in this country? How deep must a racist injury be, to move ordinary citizens to act?

    I feel sick to my stomach, having read about this case.

    Your thoughts?

    In your quote:
    4. On no metric is the murder Tharpe was convicted of among "the worst of the worst". After repeatedly harassing his ex-wife and her family, on September 25, 1990, he used his car to force the vehicle she was traveling in off the road. He shot the driver, his sister-in-law, to death, then kidnapped and raped his ex-wife. The murder was death-qualified under Georgia law, but we all know, this is not an especially heinous killing.

    Why does it have to be the "worst of the worst"? He stalked, harassed, kidnapped, raped, and murdered. At some point, no matter how difficult a person's upbringing was, there is just no saving them. I have no issue with this person's fate.

    I do take issue with the one juror. If I could do anything I wanted, I'd gather all the evidence, and show it to one of the alternates, and then document how the alternate felt about it.
    Thanks from Madeline

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