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Thread: The Worst Death Sentence EVER?

  1. #21
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    That is not the point, Spooky. Try reading the Op again.

    I want him to be punished, but executing him seems unjustly harsh to me. And it is obvious Tharpe is being executed not for what he did, but because he is black and poor and mentally disabled.
    It doesn't matter what race he is, his crimes deserve death.

    If this were a white man you wouldn't have started a thread about it.

    His crimes are not in dispute here.

    And how is rape and murder not warranted for a death penalty?

    Plenty of whites have gone to the chair for the same thing, did you pity them?

  2. #22
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    It doesn't matter what race he is, his crimes deserve death.

    If this were a white man you wouldn't have started a thread about it.

    His crimes are not in dispute here.

    And how is rape and murder not warranted for a death penalty?

    Plenty of whites have gone to the chair for the same thing, did you pity them?
    The answer to that would be no.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    The vast majority of people in the United States have I.Q.s between 80 and 120, with an I.Q. of 100 considered average. To be diagnosed as having mental retardation, a person must have an I.Q. below 70-75, i.e. significantly below average.

    There is no way this man's mental disability was of such that he didn't know that committing 1st degree premeditated murder was wrong.

    Being poor is also no excuse.

    So all you have left is the race card.
    Link? I do not think human intelligence is arrayed as you suggested. Also, the impact on a human adult of an IQ of 80 v. 70 or less is not "ten percent less brain power". It's the loss of the capacity for independent living, etc.

    I never suggested that Tharpe should be "excused". He is guilty and, as far as I know, he has no excuse.

    (Extreme mental disability can be associated with loss of inhibition, etc., so it's possible he was unable to confine his conduct to the law. But set that issue aside momentarily, for this thread, please.)

    The Op makes clear that (1) Tharpe's death sentence is constitutionally flawed and should be void and (2) would never have been imposed if Tharpe had not been black, poor and disabled.

    And a resident of Georgia.

    What racist injury could possibly be worse than illegally executing death row inmates because they are black? How is this any different from Jim Crow lynching?
    Last edited by Madeline; 23rd September 2017 at 10:12 AM.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Link? I do not think human intelligence is arrayed as you suggested. Also, the impact on a human adult of an IQ of 80 v. 70 or less is not "ten percent less brain power". It's the loss of the capacity for independent living, etc.

    I never suggested that Tharpe should be "excused". He is guilty and, as far as I know, he has no excuse.

    (Extreme mental disability can be associated with loss of inhibition, etc., so it's possible he was unable to confine his conduct to the law. But set that issue aside momentarily, for this thread, please.)

    The Op makes clear that (1) Tharpe's death sentence is constitutionally flawed and should be void and (2) would never have been imposed if Tharpe had not been black, poor and disabled.

    And a resident of Georgia.

    What racist injury could possibly be worse than illegally executing death row inmates because they are black? How is this any different from Jim Crow lynching?
    Missouri also has a reputation of executing murderers with IQ's in the 70's.

    Are you equally as outraged about that or is it only the black criminals you are outraged over?
    Thanks from Madeline

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    Missouri also has a reputation of executing murderers with IQ's in the 70's.

    Are you equally as outraged about that or is it only the black criminals you are outraged over?
    No, I am aware of the issue nationwide. Frankly, every one involved disgusts me. Doctors who whore themselves out to prosecutors or defense lawyers, willing to give any opinion requested for a buck.

    Prosecutors seeking to execute the mentally disabled on technical grounds. E.g., many have very few school records documenting their disability in childhood because, not surprisingly, most were not born to parents with average intelligence, middle class lifestyles or who were advocates for their children.

    Defense lawyers trying to rediagnosis perfectly normal clients as mentally disabled by use of paid LIARS aka medical experts.

    And the SCOTUS, which sees the shitstorm its decision created but which fails to provide the guidance needed to alleviate the worst abuses.
    Last edited by Madeline; 25th September 2017 at 12:41 AM.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    No, I am aware of the issue nationwide. Frankly, every one involved disgusts me. Doctors who whore themselves out to prosecutors or defense lawyers, willing to give any opinion requested for a buck.

    Prosecutors seeking to execute the mentally disabled on technical grounds. E.g., many have very few school records documenting their disability on childhood because, not surprisingly, most were not born to parents with average intelligence, middle class lifestyles or who were advocates for their children.

    Defense lawyers trying to rediagnosis perfectly normal clients as mentally disabled by use of paid LIARS aka medical experts.

    And the SCOTUS, which sees the shitstorm its decision created but which fails to provide the guidance needed to alleviate the worst abuses.
    Wait a minute.

    I thought you said it was also about race.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    Missouri also has a reputation of executing murderers with IQ's in the 70's.

    Are you equally as outraged about that or is it only the black criminals you are outraged over?
    I always had some doubts about this too... how do they measure folks IQs? When we have a person who's capable of rape and murder, who almost certainly understands that a death sentence is possible for them, what makes us sure that they do their best on an IQ test, so we can decide whether or not to execute them?
    Thanks from Madeline

  8. #28
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    I always had some doubts about this too... how do they measure folks IQs? When we have a person who's capable of rape and murder, who almost certainly understands that a death sentence is possible for them, what makes us sure that they do their best on an IQ test, so we can decide whether or not to execute them?
    Adds a whole new twist to the old saying "test like your life depends on it", doesn't it?
    Thanks from Madeline

  9. #29
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    It doesn't matter what race he is, his crimes deserve death.
    The death penalty serves no logical purpose. For example, it cannot be a deterrent as- once we kill murderers- the marginal cost for the murderer from committing additional murders falls to zero (i.e. it encourages them to increase their kill rate). We're therefore left with the reality, as illustrated by your post: it isn't anything but a hangover from lynch mob mentality.

  10. #30
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    In your quote:
    4. On no metric is the murder Tharpe was convicted of among "the worst of the worst". After repeatedly harassing his ex-wife and her family, on September 25, 1990, he used his car to force the vehicle she was traveling in off the road. He shot the driver, his sister-in-law, to death, then kidnapped and raped his ex-wife. The murder was death-qualified under Georgia law, but we all know, this is not an especially heinous killing.

    Why does it have to be the "worst of the worst"? He stalked, harassed, kidnapped, raped, and murdered. At some point, no matter how difficult a person's upbringing was, there is just no saving them. I have no issue with this person's fate.

    I do take issue with the one juror. If I could do anything I wanted, I'd gather all the evidence, and show it to one of the alternates, and then document how the alternate felt about it.
    You can certainly advocate for a system under which every first degree murderer is executed, no exceptions. I might even join you.

    However, that is not what Georgia law provides. No state or the federal government with the death penalty has that system today.

    To be executed in America, the crime must be death-qualified, and the jury must consider factors in mitigation and in aggravation, and conclude that THIS defendant must die for THIS murder.

    Some crimes are death-qualified because of the status of the victim. Killing a police officer in the course of his duties. Killing more than one person. Etc.

    Some are death-qualified because of the killer's conduct: torture-murder, murder for hire, etc.

    In many DP states, maybe most, a crime is death-qualified if it occurs during the course of another felony. Robbery, rape, kidnapping, bank robbery, murder of a witness or juror in another case. Etc.

    This last category is how Tharpe was sentenced to death, even though the crimes against his ex-wife occured after he murdered his sister in law. Ergo, his victim could not have known about his ex-wife's suffering.

    More importantly, almost no first degree murders occur in the ABSENCE of any other felony. Driving a cab, operating a 24 bodega, working as a street prostitute, etc. are all unusually dangerous occupations because those workers are a greater risk of being murdered. IOW, these murders are horrible, but not shocking.

    IF you agree that we should execute ONLY the worst of the worst, as I do, it is just not possible to argue that every robbery-murder is heinous etc. So many occur in Cleveland, I barely even notice each individual crime.

    My own view is, ONLY one type murder should be death-qualified: torture-murder.

    Tharpe could not be executed under a death penalty scheme that I would approve. He cannot be executed in conformity with the US constitution, as interpreted by the SCOTUS last year.

    But it is almost certain, he will nonetheless be executed in 72 hours.

    If so. this is nothing but racist, state-sponsored lynching, IMO. A white man in Tharpe's position would have had his death sentence commutted to LWOP.
    Last edited by Madeline; 23rd September 2017 at 11:15 AM.

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