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Thread: The Worst Death Sentence EVER?

  1. #51
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Golly, sounding like an advert for Goebbels now!

    Back to reality. Your backward attitudes actually increase the likelihood of murder victims. You don't have the education in logic, mind you, to realise it
    Link to the death penalty increasing murder rates please.

  2. #52
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Link to the death penalty increasing murder rates please.
    The brutalisation literature is nothing new. An educated fellow would typically know that. Example...

    DETERRENCE OR BRUTALIZATION? AN IMPACT ASSESSMENT OF OKLAHOMA'S RETURN TO CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - COCHRAN - 1994 - Criminology - Wiley Online Library
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Revenge? As I said 'lynch mob mentality'.

    As you're not referring to deterrence you cannot refer to how punishment minimises the risk of my family becoming victims. Indeed, there is plenty of analysis looking at how the death penalty actually increases the risk of further murders. See, for example, the brutalisation hypothesis.
    Bah..death penalty increases murder rate? That takes a bit of twisted logic.

    I've mentioned on here before, my brother's two grandchildren, ages 2 and 4 that had their lives taken too early. The person who did it is setting in prison for 5 life terms. It is just a slow death penalty. I would have opted to give him the quick method. And yes, there is an element of revenge involved there. But with what the family has suffered, we've earned that right.
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  4. #54
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, the state of Georgia will execute Keith Tharpe, unless the SCOTUS or the governor of the state of Georgia intervenes.

    Here are some of the aspects of this case that upset me the most:

    1. Tharpe's jury included at least one man who is a notorious racist. Tharpe, who is black, was sentenced to death by a unanimous jury. Among the jurors was a white man named Barney Gattie, who gave Tharpe's appeals lawyer an affidavit in which he said, among other things, that he questioned whether black people have souls. This clearly violated Tharpe's 6th amendment right to an impartial jury, and yet has not been the basis of a successful appeal to any Georgia state court or to the federal court for the 11th district.

    The SCOTUS is not likely to save Tharpe's life. In 2016, it permitted the execution of Kenneth Fults, in which one juror deciding that case, Thomas Buffington, said in a sworn 2005 affidavit: “I don’t know if he [Kenneth Fults] killed anybody,” but the death penalty is “what that ****** deserved.” He was executed nonetheless.

    Seems as if the SCOTUS has decided that the 6th amendment does not protect black Americans.

    2. Tharpe was so poor, he had trouble avoiding starvation as a child. His trial lawyer is described by Time magazine as "horrifyingly uninformed and unconcerned legal representation".

    3. Tharpe is intellectually disabled, with an IQ of only 74. This places him in the lowest 1% of American adults, arrayed by IQ. Since the 2002 SCOTUS decision Atkins v. Virginia, the states no longer have the power to execute the mentally disabled, but the description of such people is those with an IQ of 70 and below.

    Tharpe, who is so intellectually challenged that independent living is not viable, cannot be protected with other mentally disabled people because some scientist or doctor or social worker ranked him 4 points above the cut off for safety.

    HITH is this a defensible choice, in any civilized society?

    4. On no metric is the murder Tharpe was convicted of among "the worst of the worst". After repeatedly harassing his ex-wife and her family, on September 25, 1990, he used his car to force the vehicle she was traveling in off the road. He shot the driver, his sister-in-law, to death, then kidnapped and raped his ex-wife. The murder was death-qualified under Georgia law, but we all know, this is not an especially heinous killing.

    5. Georgia had the second-most recorded lynchings in American history, and has had a strikingly terrible record of executing black Americans since WW II.



    The Georgia State Supreme Court opinion affirming Tharpe's death sentence illustrates just how far the state is permitted to go in pursuing the execution of a black defendant for racist reasons.

    Keith Leroy Tharpe | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

    Last year, SCOTUS decided that a death sentence may be attacked on the grounds that the jury deliberations were tainted by racism. Pena-Rodriguez v. Colorado, 2016. But it is difficult to reconcile the Pena-Rodriguez opinion with the SCOTUS' decision to refuse to hear the appeal on behalf of Kenneth Fults.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...eorgia/477969/



    A Black Man Convicted By a Racist Juror Will Be Executed | Time.com

    Keith Tharpe is not about to be executed because of the murder he committed. He is about to be executed because his crime occurred in Georgia, and he is black, poor and mentally disabled. In 1997, SCOTUS ruled that the death penalty must not be applied on the grounds of who the defendant is, rather than what he has done. Buck v. Texas, 1997.

    Yet no one is following this rule -- not even the SCOTUS itself. This despicable outcome is so unjust and so revolting, there cannot be a defender of it by anyone who accepts at least rudimentary human rights should be secured to every American by their government.

    What shocks our conscience, in this country? How deep must a racist injury be, to move ordinary citizens to act?

    I feel sick to my stomach, having read about this case.

    Your thoughts?

    my thoughts...


    excellent!


    and really... a 100 year old pic?

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    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One View Post
    Bah..death penalty increases murder rate? That takes a bit of twisted logic.
    Have a read back! I've referred to two aspects. First, deterrence theory cannot be used to justify the death penalty. The marginal cost from committing additional crimes falls to zero. Therefore you have every reason to commit further crime (e.g. cop killing). Second, brutalisation predicts greater aggression (as illustrated by the paper I just referenced)

    I've mentioned on here before, my brother's two grandchildren, ages 2 and 4 that had their lives taken too early. The person who did it is setting in prison for 5 life terms. It is just a slow death penalty. I would have opted to give him the quick method. And yes, there is an element of revenge involved there. But with what the family has suffered, we've earned that right.
    Revenge is natural, but quite alien to designing optimal punishment systems (that then minimise future victims)
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  6. #56
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Have a read back! I've referred to two aspects. First, deterrence theory cannot be used to justify the death penalty. The marginal cost from committing additional crimes falls to zero. Therefore you have every reason to commit further crime (e.g. cop killing). Second, brutalisation predicts greater aggression (as illustrated by the paper I just referenced)


    Revenge is natural, but quite alien to designing optimal punishment systems (that then minimise future victims)
    You are missing the point.

    The goal is not to prevent brutalism, you deal with that as it arises.

    If it creates more than so be it, we will deal with that as it arises.

    Its about justice.

  7. #57
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You are missing the point.

    The goal is not to prevent brutalism, you deal with that as it arises.

    If it creates more than so be it, we will deal with that as it arises.

    Its about justice.
    Again, you're just illogical. As illustrated by the evidence I gave, your backward revenge position does create negative brutalisation effects. You can crow "our lynching is justice", but you're creating more victims in the future and that is a disgrace

  8. #58
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Again, you're just illogical. As illustrated by the evidence I gave, your backward revenge position does create negative brutalisation effects. You can crow "our lynching is justice", but you're creating more victims in the future and that is a disgrace
    I disagree that it will cause more victims.

    Is putting someone to death going to make a man kill his wife?

    I highly doubt it.

    That is illogical.

    "oh they are executing more people now, I guess I should go out and kill someone."

    Please

  9. #59
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    I disagree that it will cause more victims.
    Try disputing the evidence presented then.

    Is putting someone to death going to make a man kill his wife?

    I highly doubt it.
    Your question doesn't make sense. I'll dumb it down for you. "I kill my wife. I knife her 40 times. I recognise that I'm likely to get the death penalty. When the police come round I therefore also knife the bobby in a big to get away. I realise the punishment from the additional murder is zero".

    Of course brutalisation is a different aspect. Add both together and you would know, if you were being logical, the death penalty doesn't work. Not surprising, except for backward nations, the world realises that....

  10. #60
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    "Tharpe's wife left him on August 28, 1990 and moved in with her mother. Following various threats of violence made by the defendant to and about his wife and her family, a peace warrant was taken out against him, and the defendant was ordered not to have any contact with his wife or her family. Notwithstanding this order, Tharpe called his wife on September 24, 1990 and argued with her, saying if she wanted to "play dirty," he would show her "what dirty was."

    On the morning of the 25th, his wife and her sister-in-law met Tharpe as they drove to work. He used his vehicle to block theirs and force them to stop. He got out of his vehicle, armed with a shotgun and apparently under the influence of drugs, and ordered them out of their vehicle. After telling the sister-in-law he was going to "f--- you up," he took her to the rear of his vehicle, where he shot her. He rolled her into a ditch, reloaded, and shot her again, killing her.

    Tharpe then drove away with his wife. After unsuccessfully trying to rent a motel room, Tharpe parked by the side of the road and raped his wife. Afterward, he drove to Macon, where his wife was to obtain money from her credit union. Instead she called the police."



    Really don't think he is being punished for being black. Believe he is being punished/executed for being a really bad guy.

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