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Thread: The Worst Death Sentence EVER?

  1. #61
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    Try disputing the evidence presented then.


    Your question doesn't make sense. I'll dumb it down for you. "I kill my wife. I knife her 40 times. I recognise that I'm likely to get the death penalty. When the police come round I therefore also knife the bobby in a big to get away. I realise the punishment from the additional murder is zero".

    Of course brutalisation is a different aspect. Add both together and you would know, if you were being logical, the death penalty doesn't work. Not surprising, except for backward nations, the world realises that....
    There is nothing for the death penalty to work for.

    Is a response to an action, there are no further goals of it.

    You are saying it will cause more deaths so following your logic we should just make murder legal then there would be no reason for people to kill others. OK, I killed someone but no point in taking hostages since I won't be prosecuted for it.

    Have a stand off with police, why bother, they won't come after me.

    Is that what you want?

  2. #62
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    There is nothing for the death penalty to work for.
    As I said, this is why your lynch mob mentality is alien to logic. The death penalty has to be part of an optimal deterrence strategy. If it isn't, you are guaranteeing more murders.

    Is a response to an action, there are no further goals of it.
    Probably explains why your position is no different to all those backward nations.

    You are saying it will cause more deaths so following your logic we should just make murder legal then there would be no reason for people to kill others. OK, I killed someone but no point in taking hostages since I won't be prosecuted for it.

    Have a stand off with police, why bother, they won't come after me.

    Is that what you want?
    This isn't an educated response. We're not referring to legalisation of anything. We're referring to optimal punishment. If capital punishment creates more murder victims then their supporters aren't just a trifle irrational. They're idiotic.

  3. #63
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    As I said, this is why your lynch mob mentality is alien to logic. The death penalty has to be part of an optimal deterrence strategy. If it isn't, you are guaranteeing more murders.


    Probably explains why your position is no different to all those backward nations.


    This isn't an educated response. We're not referring to legalisation of anything. We're referring to optimal punishment. If capital punishment creates more murder victims then their supporters aren't just a trifle irrational. They're idiotic.
    Up the punishment for murder then.

    Have public torturing's and make it so severe that nobody will do it in the future.

    Make it last weeks.

  4. #64
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Up the punishment for murder then.

    Have public torturing's and make it so severe that nobody will do it in the future.

    Make it last weeks.
    Feed into brutalisation that has been found to increase murder rates? You make no sense!

  5. #65
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    The death penalty is the last element of 'revenge killing' that needs eliminating. They pretend its about deterrence, but they are reliant on a corrupted approach that ignores the incentives created by having it
    It's political suicide to appear "soft on crime" here. Plenty of politicians know the death penalty needs severe reform or outright repeal. But none would survive if they made it a campaign promise.

    Plus, there is tremendous power in the few DAs who seek the death penalty, and in the assistant AGs who try to assure no prisoner's appeal succeeds.

    Texas even has a completely separate Criminal Court system, with appeals courts and a Texas Supreme Criminal Court. Repealing the death penalty would eliminate about 75% of their work and jurisdiction.

    Imagine that. A career made from fighting to keep flawed death sentences rolling forward. Success measured in dead bodies.

    There are some morally vacant lawyers in America.
    Last edited by Madeline; 25th September 2017 at 12:48 AM.

  6. #66
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    It's political suicide to appear "soft on crime" here. Plenty of politicians know the death penalty needs severe reform or outright appeal. But none would survive if they made it a campaign promise.

    Plus, there is tremendous power in the few DAs who seek the death penalty, and in the assistant AGs who try to assure no prisoner's appeal succeeds.

    Texas even has a completely separate Criminal Court system, with appeals courts and a Texas Supreme Criminal Court. Repealing the death penalty would eliminate about 75% of their work and jurisdiction.

    Imagine that. A career made from fighting to keep flawed death sentences rolling forward. Success measured in dead bodies.

    There are some morally vacant lawyers in America.
    How many states do not have the death penalty? Also this isn't about being soft. This is about admitting the feckin obvious: the death penalty serves no logical purpose. Are Americans incapable of logic? Do they automatically have to support the views from backward nations?

  7. #67
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æthelfrith View Post
    How many states do not have the death penalty? Also this isn't about being soft. This is about admitting the feckin obvious: the death penalty serves no logical purpose. Are Americans incapable of logic? Do they automatically have to support the views from backward nations?
    Americans use crime as code for racism. We are not capable of purely intellectual discussions on crime, anymore than we are on guns.

    We think you Europeans have quaint little criminals, who can be rehabilitated with cups of tea and a sympathetic ear.

    You don't know really dangerous criminals, like Americans do.

    (That sound is my eyes, rolling around like marbles.)

  8. #68
    Scucca Æthelfrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Americans use crime as code for racism.
    I appreciate that. The lynch mob mentality is part of a history in racism after all.

    We are not capable of purely intellectual discussions on crime, anymore than we are on guns.
    First, you've always had gun control. Second, you had variation in practices across states. This isn't an American 'we'. This is a Conservative 'we'

    We think you Europeans have quaint little criminals, who can be rehabilitated with cups of tea and a sympathetic ear.
    Imagine twinning low murder and prison rates? That won't compute.

    You don't know really dangerous criminals, like Americans do.

    (That sound is my eyes, rolling around like marbles.)
    Lived in South Africa. The world's murder capital. Now that really showed the consequences of brutalisation!
    Last edited by Æthelfrith; 23rd September 2017 at 04:35 PM.
    Thanks from Madeline

  9. #69
    Junior Member Maxwell Edison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    And those choices are far too heavily dictated by the killer's race.
    Exactly how damned dumb does one have to be to not know that when certain races commit most of the crimes, they are the same race that is punished?

    It's not rocket science.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Bullshit. You and I have not debated the death penalty before that I can recall, but you have never advocated for a system in which EVERYONE convicted of 1st degree murder MUST be executed. I doubt that you are doing so now.

    Although, if you were, you would at least be advocating for a system that is much more fair than the one we have now.
    Depending on the state, generally multiple victims or rape of a murder victim qualifies the perp for the death penalty. He qualifies. Also the "racist juror" who "gave Tharpe's appeals lawyer an affidavit in which he said, among other things, that he questioned whether black people have souls" may well have submitted the affidavit to help the appeals lawyer. Why else would he submit such an affidavit?

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