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Thread: Teen Expelled For Sitting During Pledge Of Allegiance

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Teen Expelled For Sitting During Pledge Of Allegiance

    A lawsuit says a Houston student's Constitutional rights were violated when she was expelled for not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance.

    Randall Kallinen, an attorney for 17-year-old India Landry's family, said the civil lawsuit was filed Saturday against the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District and a high school principal.

    The lawsuit says Landry, who'd been sitting for the pledge in class, was expelled Monday after doing that in the principal's office. The lawsuit says Landry returned to school Friday after the principal reversed course, saying Landry could sit.

    Landry, who is black, told KHOU she doesn't think "the flag is what it says it's for, for liberty and justice and all that."

    A district spokeswoman said Saturday she was unaware of a lawsuit and referred to a district statement saying a student won't be removed for refusing to stand for the pledge.
    Lawsuit: Teen expelled for sitting for Pledge of Allegiance - ABC News

    Why is this lawsuit still going forward, if the school reversed its position and readmitted the student?

    Well, anyway, students and children do have civil rights, but in public schools, those rights are not as broad or as protected as the rights of adults. School searches of student lockers without a warrant, drug tests, clothing restrictions, etc. have all been found constitutional.

    But what all those infringements on students' civil rights have had in common was, they are necessary or useful in maintaining order inside schools, a necessity for student and staff safety and to achieve the educational goals of the school.

    I don't see how forcing kids to stand for the pledge of allegiance can be shoehorned into that exception. I think students (but not adults) can be prevented from burning the US flag on school grounds, due to the risk of fire. But I don't think public schools can punish students who fail to salute the flag. Where's the student/staff safety concern to support such infringement?

    A useful summary of SCOTUS decisions on schools and student civil rights can be found here:

    10 Supreme Court Cases Every Teen Should Know

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    No mercy for losers Addiction Solitaire Champion, Double Deuce Champion, Queen Jewels Champion, Ray Ray Shuffle Champion, Twins Champion, Blow Up: Arcade Champion, Bunch - Time Trial Champion, Znax Champion, Zoo Keeper Champion, Sobics School Champion, Swap a Smiley Champion, Makos Champion, Dino Drop Champion, Flower Frenzy Champion, Some Puzzle Champion, Funny Bubbles Champion, CubeZ Champion, Dinky Smash Champion, Fun Fun Animals Champion, Fruit Fabriek Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Rainbow Monkey RunDown Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Crime Puzzle Champion Blueneck's Avatar
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    Was he a Jehovah's Witness?

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    Senior Member Sparta's Avatar
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    "the flag is what it says it's for, for liberty and justice and all that."

    I think public education is failing her.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sparta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Was he a Jehovah's Witness?
    Do they still make those?
    Thanks from Madeline

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Was he a Jehovah's Witness?
    Dunno. Do they have some religious objection to the pledge?

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparta View Post
    "the flag is what it says it's for, for liberty and justice and all that."

    I think public education is failing her.
    I don't. She could have been more articulate, but she clearly grasps the difference between our country's promises of liberty, etc. and the sad reality of enslavement too many live with.
    Last edited by Madeline; 8th October 2017 at 07:05 AM.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparta View Post
    Do they still make those?
    Lol. The last of the Shakers is approaching extreme old age and death, as they believed in lifelong celibacy and so, never reproduced.

    Millions of homes include their design aesthetic, but their sexual denial never caught on.
    Thanks from Blueneck

  8. #8
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    The school would be wise to end the matter by publicly apologizing the the student, and the student's family, and admitting they screwed up by expelling the student to begin with, and screwed up again by not realizing their mistake for three whole days.

    If we have the full story, and the student was merely refusing to stand up for the pledge, the school was 100% in the wrong.

    Public school students are legally to free remain silent during the pledge, whether they choose to sit or stand - as long as their actions are not interfering with others who are saying the pledge.
    Thanks from Blueneck, Ian Jeffrey and Madeline

  9. #9
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Dunno. Do [Jehovah's Witnesses] have some religious objection to the pledge?
    Yes. I believe they consider it a form of idolatry. In 1940, the Supreme Court voted 8-1 (opinion by Justice Frankfurter) that a child could be penalized for not standing and reciting the Pledge. However, in 1943, the Court voted 6-3 (opinion by Justice Jackson) to reverse that decision. (It was most likely the fastest turnaround; three Justices had changed their minds, and two new Justices voted to overturn.) The case was West Virginia v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943). I am surprised it was not included in the list you posted.

    Note that the case was decided more on free speech grounds - i.e., the freedom to not speak - than on religious freedom grounds, though the case addresses religion as well.
    Thanks from Sassy, Madeline and Blueneck

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Yes. I believe they consider it a form of idolatry. In 1940, the Supreme Court voted 8-1 (opinion by Justice Frankfurter) that a child could be penalized for not standing and reciting the Pledge. However, in 1943, the Court voted 6-3 (opinion by Justice Jackson) to reverse that decision. (It was most likely the fastest turnaround; three Justices had changed their minds, and two new Justices voted to overturn.) The case was West Virginia v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943). I am surprised it was not included in the list you posted.

    Note that the case was decided more on free speech grounds - i.e., the freedom to not speak - than on religious freedom grounds, though the case addresses religion as well.
    Welcome back, sir!

    And thanks for the post.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

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