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Thread: Fit To Stand Trial In Scotland

  1. #11
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    It's a stupid standard. "Insanity" has no medical definition.
    It is not a stupid standard. It is a legal term of art with a specific meaning that has nothing to do with one's medical condition per se, though one's mental health condition certainly bears on whether the person was insane at the time. A person who was "insane" did not understand the nature of what he or she was doing at the time of committing the act or acts in question, and did not know the difference between right and wrong. http://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/insanity.html
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  2. #12
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    Schizophrenia is one element which makes very difficult to put on trial as a défendant ..... But it does not mean that thisperson will be set free... Most countries in Europe have possibility to put this type of people in special hospitalsand to keepthem there as long as they are Dangerous for others..... You substitute to prison mentalhospital and you review the situation regularly...... The repsonsablility of the psychatrists who have to tell if someone is still dangeours is huge.... But when someone is beyond punishment what else to do ?
    The U.S. also has this system, but we have horrible biases against mental illness. Only a tiny percent of actually mentally ill people are diverted to hospitals.
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  3. #13
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is not a stupid standard. It is a legal term of art with a specific meaning that has nothing to do with one's medical condition per se, though one's mental health condition certainly bears on whether the person was insane at the time.
    True. I spoke poorly and you are correct. But it needs heavy reform IMO.

  4. #14
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Rasselas is correct. There are many elements that differ. Romano-Dutch law requires an advocate to operate from first principles rather than rely on precedent as with English Common law. There is some overlap however.... I suspect Leo might well know more on the topic. The "MacNaughten rules" cover mental fitness to plead, but I would assume that they apply similarly in both jurisdictions.

    The McNaughton Rules | History of Forensic Psychology

    I can't find the case to search for more detail. There's a man with a very similar name pops up on google, but he battered an older man to death. can you say where of when it might have happened?
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  5. #15
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    Rasselas is correct. There are many elements that differ. Romano-Dutch law requires an advocate to operate from first principles rather than rely on precedent as with English Common law. There is some overlap however.... I suspect Leo might well know more on the topic. The "MacNaughten rules" cover mental fitness to plead, but I would assume that they apply similarly in both jurisdictions.

    The McNaughton Rules | History of Forensic Psychology

    I can't find the case to search for more detail. There's a man with a very similar name pops up on google, but he battered an older man to death. can you say where of when it might have happened?
    It looks as if it's the murder of Caroline Crossan by her husband, Gary Crossan. But I am not 100% sure, as this seems to be an Irish case and I am reasonably sure the tv show concerned a Scottish one.

    I apologize.

  6. #16
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    John Crossan murdered his wife Caroline in Northern Ireland. It's an easy mistake to make. Many Scots were "imported" into Ulster to make it more Protestant, and the accent is a harsh mixture of Scots/Irish! I'm afraid that's the third different legal system in the UK. It's based on Irish common law!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_law
    Last edited by Dangermouse; 10th December 2017 at 01:14 PM.
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  7. #17
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    John Crossan murdered his wife Caroline Northen Ireland. It's an easy mistake to make. Many Scots were "imported" into Ulster to make it more Protestant, and the accent is a harsh mixture of Scots/Irish! I'm afraid that's the third different legal system in the UK. It's based on Irish common law!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_law
    Is there any overarching UK-wide authority? What happens when crimes or disputes cross borders?

  8. #18
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    Rasselas is correct. There are many elements that differ. Romano-Dutch law requires an advocate to operate from first principles rather than rely on precedent as with English Common law.
    What are "first principles," as opposed to "precedent," in this context?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    There is some overlap however.... I suspect Leo might well know more on the topic. The "MacNaughten rules" cover mental fitness to plead, but I would assume that they apply similarly in both jurisdictions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%27Naghten_rules
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  9. #19
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Is there any overarching UK-wide authority? What happens when crimes or disputes cross borders?
    It depends. Some areas of law are distinct criminal, property.... With some overlap since the union of the crowns (Scotland/England in the 1600's) Laws made in Europe, such as environmental laws, are adopted across borders..
    Last edited by Dangermouse; 10th December 2017 at 04:27 PM.
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  10. #20
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    What are "first principles," as opposed to "precedent," in this context?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%27Naghten_rules
    I'm not sure what I meant there! Aspects of Scots law date from Europe before the introduction of the Napoleonic code (in Europe) and earlier, Whereas English Common Law developed via juduicial findings and precedent. I think...! It's not my field TBH!

    https://www.scottishaffairs.org/how-...united-kingdom
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