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Thread: Denmark Plans To Double Punishments For Crimes Committed In "Ghettos"

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Denmark Plans To Double Punishments For Crimes Committed In "Ghettos"

    The Danish government plans to double the penalties for crimes committed in deprived "ghetto" areas, where immigrant numbers are above-average.

    It is part of a drive to have "no more ghettos by 2030", Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said.

    The government lists 22 areas as "ghettos", where more than 50% of residents are non-Western immigrants.

    The plan would let local police chiefs impose double punishments for some crimes, such as vandalism or theft.

    Justice Minister Soeren Pape Poulsen, who leads the Danish Conservative Party, explained the initiative to Danish DR news.

    "If there has been more vandalism, violence, threats and so on, then the local police chief can say that this is now a harsh penalty zone, and the penalty will be doubled when you commit a crime there."

    He denied that harsher penalties in one area could simply drive criminals into other areas.

    "It has to be safe to live anywhere in Denmark," he stressed.

    Danish legal expert Birgitte Arent Eiriksson, quoted by the news website The Local, said the double punishment plan risked violating the principle that "everyone is equal before the law".

    The government is also trying to tackle "parallel societies", targeting immigrants who resist integration with local Danes, preferring to stick to their own traditions.

    The Danish Ministry of Economic Affairs and Interior says the country has about half a million inhabitants with non-Western backgrounds - 10 times more than in 1980.

    It estimates that 28,000 immigrant families "live in a parallel society", and the proportion who do so reaches about 50% in "ghetto areas". The largest ethnic groups in that category are Somalis (44%) and Lebanese (41%), the ministry says.

    The government listed the 22 "ghetto areas" in December, including data on unemployment, education levels and income.

    An area is listed if its population matches at least three of five social criteria, which are:

    * The population is more than 50% non-Western immigrant

    * More than 2.7% have criminal convictions

    * Unemployment is above 40%

    * More than 50% have only a basic education

    * Average gross income is less than 55% of the average for the region.
    Denmark plans double punishment for ghetto crime - BBC News

    I realize we cannot discuss Danish constitutional law, but they belong to the EU and thus, are bound by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. They are subject to the jurisdiction of the European Human Rights Commission. So, broadly described, they have a set of parameters for which behaviors the government may criminalize, how they may punish crimes, etc.

    And I can't see ANY of this shit passing muster. Dafuq is going on in Denmark? Is their government suddenly far right?

    What say you?

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Hey - We can discuss Denmark constitutional law. Why not? Google. Plus, constitutional law is generally the same everywhere that has it. In spirit, anyway.

    I’m not sure about this. My gut reaction was the same. What the hell are they thinking? But so long as it’s defined by location and not the person you are.... Is this any different than double speeding fines in school zones or construction zones, or considering selling drugs near a school an aggravating factor in sentencing.

    I don’t like it, would never support it ... but it might not necessarily be unconstitutional. I wonder if the idea will catch on.
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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Hey - We can discuss Denmark constitutional law. Why not? Google. Plus, constitutional law is generally the same everywhere that has it. In spirit, anyway.
    There is no reason to think that constitutional law works the same everywhere.
    Thanks from DebateDrone and Madeline

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    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Hey - We can discuss Denmark constitutional law. Why not? Google. Plus, constitutional law is generally the same everywhere that has it. In spirit, anyway.

    I’m not sure about this. My gut reaction was the same. What the hell are they thinking? But so long as it’s defined by location and not the person you are.... Is this any different than double speeding fines in school zones or construction zones, or considering selling drugs near a school an aggravating factor in sentencing.

    I don’t like it, would never support it ... but it might not necessarily be unconstitutional. I wonder if the idea will catch on.
    O, interesting. My reaction is how can two burglars get wildly different sentences based only on where the structures they broke into are located? How is this treating similarly situated people the same?

    Plus, the "set aside" of "zones" for these extra-strength punishments seems impermissibly discriminatory on their face. And vague. And impossible to determine with certainty.

    And what is this hostility to "resisting integration" by Non-Europeans? If they don't break the law, why don't they have the freedom of any Danish citizen to live as they want?
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    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    There is no reason to think that constitutional law works the same everywhere.
    Yeah there is - if you follow it up with “generally. In spirit”, like I did.

    Obviously there’s specific differences. Like Japan’s self-defense clause. But generally if you’ve got a constitution, you’re enshrining the rule of law and ensuring that all citizens are equally protected under the law.

    It’s a constitution. It does constitution things.

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    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    O, interesting. My reaction is how can two burglars get wildly different sentences based only on where the structures they broke into are located? How is this treating similarly situated people the same?

    Plus, the "set aside" of "zones" for these extra-strength punishments seems impermissibly discriminatory on their face. And vague. And impossible to determine with certainty.

    And what is this hostility to "resisting integration" by Non-Europeans? If they don't break the law, why don't they have the freedom of any Danish citizen to live as they want?
    I agree.

    But if you and I and Ahmed all get the same sentence if we do it in zone A and if we do it in zone B it might pass as constitutional.

    If it’s based on location, and everyone is treated equally in each location... meh. Still kind of a shitty thing. Hope cooler heads prevail.

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    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Besides - it’s Denmark.

    Their “doubling sentencing” would be 4 months of drug counselling, free language lessons, lifestyles coaching and job skills training in the equivalent of a 3 Star hotel. Instead of only 2.
    Thanks from Madeline

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    Dick with my Buzz...Try DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Denmark plans double punishment for ghetto crime - BBC News

    I realize we cannot discuss Danish constitutional law, but they belong to the EU and thus, are bound by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. They are subject to the jurisdiction of the European Human Rights Commission. So, broadly described, they have a set of parameters for which behaviors the government may criminalize, how they may punish crimes, etc.

    And I can't see ANY of this shit passing muster. Dafuq is going on in Denmark? Is their government suddenly far right?

    What say you?
    We think of anti-Muslim...anti-immigrant as hard marching extremists. Not the case. The alt Right's message has been softened.

    There is a movement called 120 decibels. 120 db is the sound range one of the alarm horn whistles women buy for protection emits.

    #120db is trying to lob onto the #MeeToo movement. #120 uses anecdotal accounts and stories of young European encounters with Muslim and Immigrant men.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS7E0kRxeug&t=1s


    Some have noticed that many of the anti-Muslim/Immigrant 120 videos are presented by women as a women's issue, but the message is alt-Right backed...and that 120db could be a front for Alt-R.
    Thanks from Madeline

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    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I agree.

    But if you and I and Ahmed all get the same sentence if we do it in zone A and if we do it in zone B it might pass as constitutional.

    If it’s based on location, and everyone is treated equally in each location... meh. Still kind of a shitty thing. Hope cooler heads prevail.
    I'm not convinced. "Ghettos" should sound like a repugnant idea to Europeans who know their WWII history.
    Thanks from Dr.Knuckles

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    We think of anti-Muslim...anti-immigrant as hard marching extremists. Not the case. The alt Right's message has been softened.

    There is a movement called 120 decibels. 120 db is the sound range one of the alarm horn whistles women buy for protection emits.

    #120db is trying to lob onto the #MeeToo movement. #120 uses anecdotal accounts and stories of young European encounters with Muslim and Immigrant men.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS7E0kRxeug&t=1s


    Some have noticed that many of the anti-Muslim/Immigrant 120 videos are presented by women as a women's issue, but the message is alt-Right backed...and that 120db could be a front for Alt-R.
    It's both. European women have the right to demand protection from their police.

    So, send in 10xs more cops. 50xs. Whatever it takes.

    But all people in Europe have human rights, which should include freedom from government interference in their religious beliefs and practices AS LONG AS those practices are not crimes.

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