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Thread: Religious Freedom and Circumcision? Where do the issues Intersect and How

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    Voice of Reason ProgressivePatriot's Avatar
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    Religious Freedom and Circumcision? Where do the issues Intersect and How

    We hear a lot about religious freedom these days in the context of various "culture wars" issues, but circumcision? I grew up in Brooklyn NY in a neighborhood that was mixed Italian Catholics and Jewish people. Circumcision was not an issue. All males, including myself were circumcised, at least as far as I knew. I never thought of it as a religious issue, but now I know that it is .

    What Circumcision and 'Religious Freedom' Have in Common


    https://www.advocate.com/commentary/...om-have-common

    In Iceland, “religious freedom” has popped up in response to a piece of proposed legislation that would actually make a religious practice illegal — the first of its kind in Europe, according to The New York Times. Last month, members of Parliament introduced a bill that would ban circumcision of infant males. Anyone who performs circumcision on a male under the legal age of consent would face six years in prison. The bill was created without consulting representatives from the country’s Jewish or Muslim communities. Both groups practice infant male circumcision as part of their faith.
    Very interesting indeed:

    “I didn’t think it was necessary to consult,” Progressive Party MP Silja Dögg Gunnarsdóttir told told U.K. newspaper The Independent. “I don’t see it as a religious matter.”
    The progressives did not think that it was necessary..........They must have a vastly different definition of "progressive over' there

    To be honest, I do not know a lot about circumcision. I don't know what medical / health benefits there are or what the downside are might be. But I do know that it does, indeed raise interesting questions, specifically-when should circumcision be allowed or not allowed:

    1. Circumcision should be legal at all times

    2. Circumcision should be illegal unless it can be shown that there is no harm done to the child

    3. Circumcision should be illegal at all times unless a medical benefit can be demonstrated

    4. Both 2 and 3 above

    5. Circumcision should be illegal but we should allow for religious exemptions, regardless of the effects on the child

    6. Circumcision should be illegal unless it can be demonstrated that there is no harm to the child , that the are medical benefits AND there is a religious objection.
    .
    Last edited by ProgressivePatriot; 4th April 2018 at 04:53 PM.

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    Sally Sitter Paris's Avatar
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    Global Map of Male Circumcision Prevalence by Country



    Looks like it does inter-sect...ouch!

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    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    We already know there are medical benefits; it's been documented and published in peer-reviewed studies. The benefits are greater for some demographics than others, but the American Medical Association has not seen fit to condemn the practice. And having seen one performed first-hand, I can testify that it's quick, and not significantly painful. This last bit I surmise from the pitch of the baby's crying. All parents know that the pitch and strength of a baby's cry differs between discomfort/general pain (diaper, earache), and a sharp pain (finger pinched).

    My son cried when he was circumcised. It was clearly a "discomfort" cry. He stopped crying in about three minutes, and then napped for a while.
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    Sally Sitter Paris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    We already know there are medical benefits...
    Bullshit

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    Sally Sitter Paris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    And having seen one performed first-hand, I can testify that it's quick, and not significantly painful. This last bit I surmise from the pitch of the baby's crying. All parents know that the pitch and strength of a baby's cry differs between discomfort/general pain (diaper, earache), and a sharp pain (finger pinched).

    My son cried when he was circumcised. It was clearly a "discomfort" cry. He stopped crying in about three minutes, and then napped for a while.
    Bullshit


  6. #6
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Bullshit
    You can say "bullshit" if you wish. Neither your expletive, nor your spliced, unsourced videos change the facts. I was present for my son's circumcision. It was performed using topical anesthetic and with sterilized instruments. It was done by a mohel who had performed literally over 10,000 circumcisions over his career (far more than any medical doctor). As far as the medical benefits are concerned, I'd be glad to post links to peer-reviewed studies on non-advocacy websites - if it would mean something to you. Otherwise, it's not worth my time.
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    Sally Sitter Paris's Avatar
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    Seems strange that observation doesn't corroborate your claim. Could it be because it's full of shit?

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    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    We already know there are medical benefits; it's been documented and published in peer-reviewed studies. The benefits are greater for some demographics than others, but the American Medical Association has not seen fit to condemn the practice. And having seen one performed first-hand, I can testify that it's quick, and not significantly painful. This last bit I surmise from the pitch of the baby's crying. All parents know that the pitch and strength of a baby's cry differs between discomfort/general pain (diaper, earache), and a sharp pain (finger pinched).

    My son cried when he was circumcised. It was clearly a "discomfort" cry. He stopped crying in about three minutes, and then napped for a while.
    I agree 100%. Vaginal infections increase with uncircumcised men not to mention infections that can occur with hygiene issues if the man does not take care of it properly. American women prefer circumcision with their partners for a variety of reasons. The only religious requirements that I am aware of are Jewish...many atheists have the procedure done as well.

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    Sure, it's ok to mutilate our sons.

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